Most Overrated Band of the 'Big Six'

Glucose wrote: Despite i really, really love all of them, I have to vote for ELP. I don't see anything much new or prog about this band. At least in comparsion with the others.

Referring to the OP question....overrated in what way ....?

Here's a brick!

You underestimate Waters there! He's the great composer of most DSOTM, WYWH and almost all of Animals, The Wall and TFC. Also his solo career wasn't bad, Amused To Death is a jewel!

DDPascalDD wrote: You underestimate Waters there! He's the great composer of most DSOTM, WYWH and almost all of Animals, The Wall and TFC. Also his solo career wasn't bad, Amused To Death is a jewel! Well the bass playing is just average, if that is what matters to you...

Not sure about Waters having such a huge input in songwriting during their golden period (for me, Dark Side, WYWH, and Animals). Dark Side is a very even album as far as songwriting goes. OK, Breath, Money, and Brain Damage/Eclipse are written by Waters, out of which the last couple are my very favourites, while I don't really care much for Money. Time is a group effort, if I remember correctly (and I wouldn't be surprised if Waters input to that song was mostly only the lyrics)... and I guess Any Color you Like is also a group composition (don't really remember so well). And Great Gig and Us And Them are Wright's songs (of course, plust Waters lyrics on the later one). So there it is, without the rest of the band, this album wouldn't have been a shadow of what it is.

On WYWH, Shine on You Crazy Diamond is a group composition too, and that's the piece that holds the weight of the album, plus the title song is a Gilmour song (with Waters lyrics). Of course, Waters has Welcome to the Machine and Have a Cigar (the first I love, the second I don't care about).

And with Animals, which is often regarded as the album in which Waters began to have too much control over the band... and even though he did write all the songs except for one... well, Dogs was written by Gilmour and Waters, and once again I understand the music was actually Gilmour's, and Waters contribution is the lyrics, so that makes the song that takes almost half the album (and in my opinion the best one) a Gilmour composition.

The Wall and The Final Cut are definitley Waters Babies, but even on The Wall the best song was co-written with Gilmour.

Dellinger wrote: DDPascalDD wrote: You underestimate Waters there! He's the great composer of most DSOTM, WYWH and almost all of Animals, The Wall and TFC. Also his solo career wasn't bad, Amused To Death is a jewel! Well the bass playing is just average, if that is what matters to you... Not sure about Waters having such a huge input in songwriting during their golden period (for me, Dark Side, WYWH, and Animals). Dark Side is a very even album as far as songwriting goes. OK, Breath, Money, and Brain Damage/Eclipse are written by Waters, out of which the last couple are my very favourites, while I don't really care much for Money. Time is a group effort, if I remember correctly (and I wouldn't be surprised if Waters input to that song was mostly only the lyrics)... and I guess Any Color you Like is also a group composition (don't really remember so well). And Great Gig and Us And Them are Wright's songs (of course, plust Waters lyrics on the later one). So there it is, without the rest of the band, this album wouldn't have been a shadow of what it is. On WYWH, Shine on You Crazy Diamond is a group composition too, and that's the piece that holds the weight of the album, plus the title song is a Gilmour song (with Waters lyrics). Of course, Waters has Welcome to the Machine and Have a Cigar (the first I love, the second I don't care about). And with Animals, which is often regarded as the album in which Waters began to have too much control over the band... and even though he did write all the songs except for one... well, Dogs was written by Gilmour and Waters, and once again I understand the music was actually Gilmour's, and Waters contribution is the lyrics, so that makes the song that takes almost half the album (and in my opinion the best one) a Gilmour composition. The Wall and The Final Cut are definitley Waters Babies, but even on The Wall the best song was co-written with Gilmour.

TheLionOfPrague wrote: Dellinger wrote: DDPascalDD wrote: You underestimate Waters there! He's the great composer of most DSOTM, WYWH and almost all of Animals, The Wall and TFC. Also his solo career wasn't bad, Amused To Death is a jewel! Well the bass playing is just average, if that is what matters to you... Not sure about Waters having such a huge input in songwriting during their golden period (for me, Dark Side, WYWH, and Animals). Dark Side is a very even album as far as songwriting goes. OK, Breath, Money, and Brain Damage/Eclipse are written by Waters, out of which the last couple are my very favourites, while I don't really care much for Money. Time is a group effort, if I remember correctly (and I wouldn't be surprised if Waters input to that song was mostly only the lyrics)... and I guess Any Color you Like is also a group composition (don't really remember so well). And Great Gig and Us And Them are Wright's songs (of course, plust Waters lyrics on the later one). So there it is, without the rest of the band, this album wouldn't have been a shadow of what it is. On WYWH, Shine on You Crazy Diamond is a group composition too, and that's the piece that holds the weight of the album, plus the title song is a Gilmour song (with Waters lyrics). Of course, Waters has Welcome to the Machine and Have a Cigar (the first I love, the second I don't care about). And with Animals, which is often regarded as the album in which Waters began to have too much control over the band... and even though he did write all the songs except for one... well, Dogs was written by Gilmour and Waters, and once again I understand the music was actually Gilmour's, and Waters contribution is the lyrics, so that makes the song that takes almost half the album (and in my opinion the best one) a Gilmour composition. The Wall and The Final Cut are definitley Waters Babies, but even on The Wall the best song was co-written with Gilmour. Yep. Some people think Waters wrote most of the music because they just take a look at the credits, and he appears in almost all songs because of the lyrics. Before The Wall the songwriting was pretty evenly distributed. As you mentioned in Dark Side he wrote Money and Brain Damage/Eclipse. But Breathe is also Gilmour's and Wright's (while everyone contributed for Time). Also, in many Waters songs Gilmour would write the arrangements and improve them considerably. The Wall and The Final Cut are 100% Waters, but in the previous albums Gilmour was the most important member.

Yet, once again, a case must be mentioned for Wright. Without him, it just doesn't sound like Pink Floyd. The Endless River, even though his contributions were limited to what was already recorded, proves it... just as his absence from The Final Cut... and in some ways from The Wall too, proves it.

Dellinger wrote: Yet, once again, a case must be mentioned for Wright. Without him, it just doesn't sound like Pink Floyd. The Endless River, even though his contributions were limited to what was already recorded, proves it... just as his absence from The Final Cut... and in some ways from The Wall too, proves it.

I agree with you there. In a way, Floyd had two (truly) great musicians - Gilmour and Wright, who were also more than decent vocalists.  Roger was very much the creative force (ideas man, superb lyric writer), an average (IMO) chug-a-chug bass player and average vocalist.  And as for Nick, a great personality, and decent (but not great) drummer, though his almost nonchalant playing style works perfectly in the greater scheme of the Floydian sound..

The aforementioned Wall and Final Cut do indeed suffer from lack (or absence) of Rick, and that is also the problem I have with Animals - even though Rick was there, he had simply run out of inspiration (note that it is the first album on which he doesn't get a composer's credit).

However, as a unit when Gilmour, Waters, Wright & Mason were truly cooperating (approximately from the time of Saucerful to WYWH) they were pretty darned good.


Edited by Floydoid - December 24 2015 at 07:45

Of course it's a simpleton answer, we are having to lump these six with a populist label and discuss a subjective context without actual discussion parameters.

In a world where the effective life of any pop rock or jazz band is roughly five years (ELP and KC from 69 - 74 or so, same with Yes, Genesis before changes are made the assessment of creativity is based largely on how the older stuff which people are more used to dominates what is new.

At the height of their popularity they sold out stadia. Given the somewhat less mainstream aspect of most of their music they achieved miracles. Classical rock in Montreal Stadium, live concept albums all sort of of good stuff.

I think the real question is not about the bands and their achievements but the varying level of taste and acceptance of change in the audience. Over rated? No. Once hugely popular yes. Now that popularity has waned in the the wake of their contemporary audience's social change the longevity of credibility fills the void.

Over rating? Still want a decent answer as to what this is. A process? A thing? Anything valid at all? Highly rated sure, or perhaps under acknowledged? Possibly the reviews that are so personally fulfilling to the writers are less than desirable in objective terms to readers. Could be all sorts of things, combinations of factors to anyone and everyone.

So yes, a simplistic answer; what do you expect?

In short as Fripp said the quality of the question determines the quality of the answer.

micky wrote:  Unless one thinks they were like Genesis and were playing dinner clubs and selling albums to family members when others were taking prog rock to the masses and influencing contemporaries and future groups and making prog rock known to those outside the musically, culturally and intellectually elite.