Carl Palmer as a drummer? |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:42 |
This is just repeating the same naive misinformation. Steve Hackett lacks technical virtuosity? Are you out of your bloody mind? And is Steve Howe less skilled than Eric Johnson because Howe can't play as seemlessly or in such a contemporary way? -- conversely, is Johnson less a virtuoso because he has not mastered classical and country guitar? Edited by Atavachron - January 02 2007 at 21:43 |
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:43 |
Skill is just one of the attributes... the attribute that Gilmour lacks.. but I always said skill is not all in music, is the way you use it that's important.
BTW: Di Meola is not a poser because he plays fast.. neither is De Lucia.. they both could play slowly and with emotion as well |
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:47 |
Horsepucky |
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:49 |
I'm not insulting anyone here... this is just a very entertaining debate.... but if this is the way it's gonna be I'll restrain from posting here
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Jesus Gabriel
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 828 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:53 |
Gosh, emotion alone can't make a virtuoso. Look the word up in a dictionary.
Let me see if I can explain things, since I have a good deal of experience playing classical and jazz piano and drums. When I play drums, playing "the right thing at the right time" is so much easier than playing something that is hard to play. The "right time" is usually pretty obvious, and the "right thing" is usually very easy to play. It is much harder to focus on complicated things. When I play classical piano, there are some pieces that are very easy technically, so I focus on the dynamics, making it more emotional. However, making these type of pieces emotional is many times easy than playing a very difficult piece. Of course, the most difficult of all is play an advanced piece with lots of emotion. Jazz is a whole other thing since you're improvising. Making a nice, simple melody on the spot is a lot harder than playing a bunch of really fast, random gibberish. Of course the hardest of all is playing at a high technical level while still having good melody and phrasing. On the other hand, composing simple little melodies is one of the easiest things ever. Sometimes I'll be improvising and I'll play something, and then I stop and say "hey, this could sound a lot better if I added this note," and after messing around for a couple of seconds I come up with a nifty little melody. And this little melody is very easy to play, but it would have sounded awesome if I had made it up on the spot. Of course, I didn't, so it's lame. That's one of things I'm striving for: Pulling pretty little melodies out of thin air. To conclude, playing technical pieces is much harder than simple pieces with emotion added. Of course, the hardest of all is playing very hard pieces with plenty of emotion. Playing easy stuff with emotion, like Gilmour, is not hard. Playing hard stuff with emotion is. Also, simple melodies are only cool when they're made up on the spot. If you're not going to compose a solo instead of improvising it, you might as well make it challenging. So, despite popular opinion, playing the "right thing at the right time" is not as hard as it seems, because the right thing is usually so easy to do! |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:54 |
No, you aren't insulting anyone, at least not me...I am really trying to be civil, I will try even harder, but it is difficult considering your stance. No worries, I'm not insulted, hope you aren't either. When you make such assertions you should expect such reactions, especially from life-long musicians |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 21:59 |
Edited by Atavachron - January 02 2007 at 22:00 |
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 828 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 22:12 |
That was not very constructive.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 22:13 |
I didn't think so either
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 02 2007 at 23:44 |
This guy obviously has to learn from Gilmour
http://youtube.com/watch?v=57WSFRDqTPw Robben Ford... now that's skill WITH a feeling. |
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Jesus Gabriel
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26395 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 02:42 |
Gilmour just makes it sound effortless and 'easy'.Doesn't mean it is!
Presumably musicianship (at a high level) can be broken down into three seperate things:
Skill
Energy
Emotion
Is that right?
...also I presume that ability to improvise is mainly a jazz thing?
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 02:57 |
Well... it is to me (improvising like him, not playing his exact notes), he's over all a blues guitarist, a good blues guitarist with lots of emotion, but if I want skill (as in "techinque") in blues I'd say Clapton has it in spades over Gilmour, and Clapton is already more energy than technique IMO. Yes Gilmour has his "technical trickery" (harmonic sustained notes and such), but it doesn't take a lot of practice to do that, really. Blues guitarists are also improvisers but blues is just a basic music form( generally 3 or 4 chords over a 12-bar measure.. it may vary but doesn't stray to much from this format).. blues also has a standard scale from which you could improvise.. In jazz there's almost no boundaries for experimentation and improvisation, yet it is hard to do it effectively.
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Jesus Gabriel
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26395 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:02 |
I'll have to take your word that it doesn't take a lot of practice to do what Gilmour does.I can only trust my ears and when other guitarists (like say the respected Snowy White) try to do what he does it ends up sounding second best for some reason.Is that because Gilmour has 'patented' it and they don't want to tread on his feet?
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:12 |
perhaps they go on a different "wave"... and Gilmour is the one that makes it work for you ears... also comes from the fact that Snowy uses his thumbs a lot instead of a pick, so the sound might vary
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:21 |
I love Robben-- he would come and play at the music school I attended and it was a thrill. However, this clip is far from the best I've heard him and he has *nothing* on Gilmour in this sample. We can agree to disagree, but at least present a better case than a dated jazz-rock performance. He is so much more than this, |
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:22 |
I know.. unfortunately there is not much more clips from that Yellowjackets period
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:33 |
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kDdZl3joA34
here's an example of Robben's blues licks.. perhaps not his best but not bad either |
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:37 |
You're digging a deeper hole. This is Ford at his most mundane and commonplace. If Gilmour were standing next to him with a Strat or his Paul Reed Smith and Mesa Boogie head on some vintage Fenders, he'd absolutely cream Ford here...it would be a bloodbath.
Edited by Atavachron - January 03 2007 at 03:38 |
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:41 |
I really don't know what you mean... I see far more potential (energy-wise) in that solo than in any Gilmour solo, period. Anyway I don't think is his best solo ever
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64677 |
Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:43 |
Well then there's not much more to say. Thank you for the excellent debate!
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