Rd 1 Portland Bracket: ELP v. The Strawbs

I love Strawbs ...

Walton Street wrote: I love Strawbs ...   I can barely tolerate ELP.   There I said it.  Am I getting kicked off the forum now?

I suspect Micky will wait until after the tournament to find everyone that voted against ELP, then breakout the pitchforks and stakes!

Rick Robson wrote: richardh wrote: I've made a rule that I cannot vote in the poll if I don't own at least one album by each of the options. In this case I don't own any Strawbs albums so I am unable to vote for my favourite band (ELP). Doesn't look like its going to matter though.   Hey Richardh right on, but it is going to matter further on. Is that true that members of the ELP Ultra's have the exclusivity of multi-screen votes?  Wow! Do I deserve the right to be a newby member of it?  It would be actually great! An honour indeed!

sleeper wrote: Walton Street wrote: I love Strawbs ...   I can barely tolerate ELP.   There I said it.  Am I getting kicked off the forum now? I suspect Micky will wait until after the tournament to find everyone that voted against ELP, then breakout the pitchforks and stakes!

Polymorphia wrote: micky wrote: Polymorphia wrote: For micky, as I promised: I like to extend an olive branch to ELP fans and give ELP albums an extra star for its place in music history on top of its intrinsic value. For Tarkus, that makes two stars total. But really I applaud ELP fans for their iron stomachs. I was an ELP fan once. Then I listened to them. How is Carl Palmer like woman's pants? His pocket is too shallow to hold anything of worth and everybody wants to him out of the picture. Thus, I vote for the lesser of the two evils, the bland but occasionally delightful Strawbs.   let me get the clappie out of the way.  Love the picture.  Is  that supposed to be someone. If so I don't recoginize them. Now.  Arguing personal tastes is as pointless as is stupid. However if I can be honest, anyone giving Tarkus 2 stars in a review is a blaring red light that one has ZERO objectivity in their reviewing skill set and is a reviewer to be ignored with extreme prejudice.  One thing I've noticed is good reviewers can differentiate between their tastes and the subject being reviewed.  One does not have to like the art... however if one really wants to be taken seriously you have to at least appreciate the attempt.  Tarkus is hailed as a landmark album in prog and the side one epic is consistently tagged as one of the greatest expression of the side long epic ever in prog.  One doesn't have to like it, however one has to realize there is something there, even if one does not see it themselves.  A great warning sign that .. hey.. perhaps I am missing something. Not to toot my own horn, but I absolutely DETESTED a modern classic prog album but still rated it highly. I just made it clear I didn't like it but there was no ignoring its import or influence and WAS an album that any well rounded prog fan should have and know.  My review and the venom in it was just a warning that listeners of simiilar tastes to me might find it as revolting and sickening to the senses as I did hahah. Oh.. what is the deal with Carl Palmer. You completely lost me there. It was supposed to be Dave Cousins but the image editor burred the image beyond recognition. Now I did give Tarkus two stars but it was an honest two stars (no extra stars for the history kind of thing). Far from objective, but what does a listener have without his own subjective opinion? And that reasoning is why I don't do much reviewing. Here's the thing: The reason you gave that "modern classic" prog album was simply because of its place within prog. That's understandable, especially if you were writing for a prog magazine (I would see no reason to hold back if I were writing for another genre). But, on a user-based site like PA, if it is really a modern classic, there are going to be enough people giving it high ratings. People need to hear a variety of opinions on the album if those opinions exist and can be stated well. Otherwise, the algorithmic results on the site will be far from an objective representation of the subjective opinions and the sum of subjective opinions are the only thing that make it a classic. I don't think the script attributed to the stars should be read into that much. If a classic isn't a classic to you, the rest of the lemmings oughtta be enough to outweigh you. Anyway, I like to see blood and guts sometimes in reviewing. One of my favorite reviews is Guldbamsen's 2-star review of Deafheaven's Sunbather which made me think a little harder about the points I was making even though I gave it 5-stars.

what a listener always has a subjective opinion.  I used your post of course as a soap box against one of my long running issues with the site.  the ratings themselves.  The worth of a review is in the review not the rating. If I had my way, and I did try, I would abolish them.  Remove that crutch and have the reviews (and reviewers) speak for themselves instead of having to explain or justify the ratings given to the album.

I tried to do the reviewing thing myself. I couldn't do it, I couldn't balance strong feelings one way while feeling (as well as understanding) that ratings as written (and used) by the site are inconstistent with simple personal tastes. It also didn't help I really never felt I was a good reviewer.  This site has some great ones,  like most people, if I feel I can not do a good adequate job I won't waste the time doing something subpar. I don't have a talent for words, others do. My talents lie elsewhere I suppose hahah.

Cheers bro! and love the pic. I have already highjacked it, you will see it again in another thread in about two weeks

A David V.s Goliath, Micky.  I'll never back the underdog, so I'll go with ELP over Strawbs (who are still better than Kansas).

Polymorphia wrote: micky wrote: Polymorphia wrote: micky wrote: Polymorphia wrote: For micky, as I promised: I like to extend an olive branch to ELP fans and give ELP albums an extra star for its place in music history on top of its intrinsic value. For Tarkus, that makes two stars total. But really I applaud ELP fans for their iron stomachs. I was an ELP fan once. Then I listened to them. How is Carl Palmer like woman's pants? His pocket is too shallow to hold anything of worth and everybody wants to him out of the picture. Thus, I vote for the lesser of the two evils, the bland but occasionally delightful Strawbs.   let me get the clappie out of the way.  Love the picture.  Is  that supposed to be someone. If so I don't recoginize them. Now.  Arguing personal tastes is as pointless as is stupid. However if I can be honest, anyone giving Tarkus 2 stars in a review is a blaring red light that one has ZERO objectivity in their reviewing skill set and is a reviewer to be ignored with extreme prejudice.  One thing I've noticed is good reviewers can differentiate between their tastes and the subject being reviewed.  One does not have to like the art... however if one really wants to be taken seriously you have to at least appreciate the attempt.  Tarkus is hailed as a landmark album in prog and the side one epic is consistently tagged as one of the greatest expression of the side long epic ever in prog.  One doesn't have to like it, however one has to realize there is something there, even if one does not see it themselves.  A great warning sign that .. hey.. perhaps I am missing something. Not to toot my own horn, but I absolutely DETESTED a modern classic prog album but still rated it highly. I just made it clear I didn't like it but there was no ignoring its import or influence and WAS an album that any well rounded prog fan should have and know.  My review and the venom in it was just a warning that listeners of simiilar tastes to me might find it as revolting and sickening to the senses as I did hahah. Oh.. what is the deal with Carl Palmer. You completely lost me there. It was supposed to be Dave Cousins but the image editor burred the image beyond recognition. Now I did give Tarkus two stars but it was an honest two stars (no extra stars for the history kind of thing). Far from objective, but what does a listener have without his own subjective opinion? And that reasoning is why I don't do much reviewing. Here's the thing: The reason you gave that "modern classic" prog album was simply because of its place within prog. That's understandable, especially if you were writing for a prog magazine (I would see no reason to hold back if I were writing for another genre). But, on a user-based site like PA, if it is really a modern classic, there are going to be enough people giving it high ratings. People need to hear a variety of opinions on the album if those opinions exist and can be stated well. Otherwise, the algorithmic results on the site will be far from an objective representation of the subjective opinions and the sum of subjective opinions are the only thing that make it a classic. I don't think the script attributed to the stars should be read into that much. If a classic isn't a classic to you, the rest of the lemmings oughtta be enough to outweigh you. Anyway, I like to see blood and guts sometimes in reviewing. One of my favorite reviews is Guldbamsen's 2-star review of Deafheaven's Sunbather which made me think a little harder about the points I was making even though I gave it 5-stars. what a listener always has a subjective opinion.  I used your post of course as a soap box against one of my long running issues with the site.  the ratings themselves.  The worth of a review is in the review not the rating. If I had my way, and I did try, I would abolish them.  Remove that crutch and have the reviews (and reviewers) speak for themselves instead of having to explain or justify the ratings given to the album. I tried to do the reviewing thing myself. I couldn't do it, I couldn't balance strong feelings one way while feeling (as well as understanding) that ratings as written (and used) by the site are inconstistent with simple personal tastes. It also didn't help I really never felt I was a good reviewer.  This site has some great ones,  like most people, if I feel I can not do a good adequate job I won't waste the time doing something subpar. I don't have a talent for words, others do. My talents lie elsewhere I suppose hahah. Cheers bro! and love the pic. I have already highjacked it, you will see it again in another thread in about two weeks Yeah, I can understand how ratings can be very inadequate to describe an album. But stating qualitative opinions quantitatively is 5-stars worth of fun.  Cheers!

haha.  Fun is what it is really ALL about.  You should have seen the tremors my '5 star' review of that Dream Theater album created. People going apesh*t on the forum.. reporting it to the admins..  everyone 'in the know' had a helluva good laugh out of it. They understood what I was doing.

sleeper wrote: ^I remember that review, definitely a good laugh and so were the reactions.

I'm proud to say I've had my hands all over some classic PA's moments.. that was one I was most proud of.

Most regard Tarkus side one as ELP's masterpiece although I find the studio version somewhat in the shadow of that brilliant live version of the WBMFTTSTNE album. Tarkus Side 2 is what drags the ratings down understandably although still maintains a healthly 3.9ish average rating which isn't bad for half an album

we need to get the folkies out in force to close the gap, even if the final outcome is clearly not in doubt