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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24391
Posted: February 01 2015 at 14:16
Lear'sFool wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Post 84 American poluted Rock music
Hey! While I know from personal experience that America is a pretty crapsack place, its always pumped out great music.
Darn convict.
Indeed, one of the few positives of the six years I have spent here is the musical scene. In spite of the lack of support from the "fans", the US modern prog scene is vibrant, and among the best in the world.
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Points: 2446
Posted: February 01 2015 at 15:52
The only yank bands I've liked is Doors, Hendrix, Zappa(72-83), Devo(79-81), Happy the man, Kansas and Ronnie Foster and maybe another. My catalogue is dominated by uk, french, german and italian.
Edited by dr prog - February 01 2015 at 15:53
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Points: 2446
Posted: February 01 2015 at 16:19
Lear'sFool wrote:
^ Which makes it weird that you'd insult American musical mores, being that The Doors and Kansas were drenched in it.
Plus if you like any British blues rock, you owe Mississippi and Chicago a solid.
I mentioned about 8 bands from 1 million bands. I reckon they would have close to the smallest percentage of strong bands per population in the world
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12700
Posted: February 01 2015 at 20:17
dr prog wrote:
Lear'sFool wrote:
^ Which makes it weird that you'd insult American musical mores, being that The Doors and Kansas were drenched in it.
Plus if you like any British blues rock, you owe Mississippi and Chicago a solid.
I mentioned about 8 bands from 1 million bands. I reckon they would have close to the smallest percentage of strong bands per population in the world
That's plainly silly and so nearsighted that I am surprised you can type on your computer. Besides the ridiculously few you mentioned, there was Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, The Byrds, The Band, Creedence Clearwater Revival, 13th Floor Elevators, Captain Beefheart, Jefferson Airplane, The Grateful Dead, MC5, Iggy and the Stooges, The Velvet Underground, Canned Heat, The Allman Brothers, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Neil Young, Simon & Garfunkel, Dixie Dregs, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Alice Cooper, The Talking Heads, The Ramones, Patti Smith...
I can go on and on, and I haven't even mentioned blues greats like Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Albert Collins, Howlin' Wolf, Johnny Winter, John Lee Hooker, Willie Dixon and Stevie Ray Vaughan, or R&B or funk masters like Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, War, Parliament, Sly and the Family Stone, etc., and NEARLY EVERY JAZZ GREAT IN THE HISTORY OF THE GENRE.
When certain folks get so close-minded when it comes to prog (and only a small proportion of prog, it seems) that they become obviously and overwhelmingly stultified, I have to shake my head, because I can't reach through the PC monitor and shake them from their intellectual malaise.
Edited by The Dark Elf - February 01 2015 at 20:20
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Posted: February 01 2015 at 20:28
While I try to avoid crass generalisations wherever possible I have to admit that I have very little American music in my collection simply because a lot of it does nothing for me personally. This is a merely personal preference and nothing to do with how good, bad or indifferent the music of one country is compared to another. No one can deny the debt owed to American artists in pioneering many of the genres of Rock and Pop we take for granted, I just happen to prefer what folk on the eastern side of the Atlantic did with it afterwards.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
Posted: February 01 2015 at 21:22
Svetonio wrote:
dr prog wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. (...)
You have it backwards, I am afraid. It's pop at it best with elements of prog. You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions. Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog. And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know
Of course, doc.
After 40 years of listening to prog, I certainly can not have the same views on what is and what is not prog as someone who, for example, was born in the eighties, in nineties listened to bullsh*t techno music and (if) adding a bit of TDSotM, then accidentally bumped into this site in '00s, and finnaly due to, say, "political correctness" toward influential collabs, has become also a collaborator i.e. "Prog God"
First off, I got confused by the 'pyramid' of linked comments and thought your original comment was made by Doc. So the part about prejudiced point of view etc wasn't intended for you and I am sorry for the mix up. With that out of the way...
Oh wow getting personal, are we? Carry on. It is evident there are certain things age hasn't taught you, which is not to assume so much that you end up landing your foot as a whole piece in your mouth. Bullsh*t techno music? The music I heard through the 90s is far more progressive than most of the stuff that gets called prog on this website. You have no idea whatsoever about my tastes so don't attempt to presume. However, whether Penny Lane is prog isn't a matter of taste but music classification. Penny Lane was no.1 on the Billboard hot 100 singles chart in 1967. It was on a "20 greatest Beatles tracks" compilation tape I used to have (this was in the bullsh*t techno 90s by the way), along side Hello Goodbye, Let It Be, She Loves You. If Penny Lane is prog, then, for one thing, it accounts for the flood of additions you post in the Suggestions Thread. Just because you have been hearing prog for 40 years doesn't necessarily mean you know any better and you don't exactly make a great case in that regard when you say Penny Lane is prog.
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2446
Posted: February 02 2015 at 01:14
The Dark Elf wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Lear'sFool wrote:
^ Which makes it weird that you'd insult American musical mores, being that The Doors and Kansas were drenched in it.
Plus if you like any British blues rock, you owe Mississippi and Chicago a solid.
I mentioned about 8 bands from 1 million bands. I reckon they would have close to the smallest percentage of strong bands per population in the world
That's plainly silly and so nearsighted that I am surprised you can type on your computer. Besides the ridiculously few you mentioned, there was Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, The Byrds, The Band, Creedence Clearwater Revival, 13th Floor Elevators, Captain Beefheart, Jefferson Airplane, The Grateful Dead, MC5, Iggy and the Stooges, The Velvet Underground, Canned Heat, The Allman Brothers, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Neil Young, Simon & Garfunkel, Dixie Dregs, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Alice Cooper, The Talking Heads, The Ramones, Patti Smith...
I can go on and on, and I haven't even mentioned blues greats like Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Albert Collins, Howlin' Wolf, Johnny Winter, John Lee Hooker, Willie Dixon and Stevie Ray Vaughan, or R&B or funk masters like Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, War, Parliament, Sly and the Family Stone, etc., and NEARLY EVERY JAZZ GREAT IN THE HISTORY OF THE GENRE.
When certain folks get so close-minded when it comes to prog (and only a small proportion of prog, it seems) that they become obviously and overwhelmingly stultified, I have to shake my head, because I can't reach through the PC monitor and shake them from their intellectual malaise.
Creedance, Dregs and Wonder I like. Early Cooper and Talking heads isn't bad. The others I wouldn't bother with
Edited by dr prog - February 02 2015 at 01:17
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: February 02 2015 at 02:16
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
dr prog wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. (...)
You have it backwards, I am afraid. It's pop at it best with elements of prog. You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions. Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog. And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know
Of course, doc.
After 40 years of listening to prog, I certainly can not have the same views on what is and what is not prog as someone who, for example, was born in the eighties, in nineties listened to bullsh*t techno music and (if) adding a bit of TDSotM, then accidentally bumped into this site in '00s, and finnaly due to, say, "political correctness" toward influential collabs, has become also a collaborator i.e. "Prog God"
First off, I got confused by the 'pyramid' of linked comments and thought your original comment was made by Doc. So the part about prejudiced point of view etc wasn't intended for you and I am sorry for the mix up. With that out of the way...
Oh wow getting personal, are we? Carry on. It is evident there are certain things age hasn't taught you, which is not to assume so much that you end up landing your foot as a whole piece in your mouth. Bullsh*t techno music? The music I heard through the 90s is far more progressive than most of the stuff that gets called prog on this website. You have no idea whatsoever about my tastes so don't attempt to presume. However, whether Penny Lane is prog isn't a matter of taste but music classification. Penny Lane was no.1 on the Billboard hot 100 singles chart in 1967. It was on a "20 greatest Beatles tracks" compilation tape I used to have (this was in the bullsh*t techno 90s by the way), along side Hello Goodbye, Let It Be, She Loves You. If Penny Lane is prog, then, for one thing, it accounts for the flood of additions you post in the Suggestions Thread. Just because you have been hearing prog for 40 years doesn't necessarily mean you know any better and you don't exactly make a great case in that regard when you say Penny Lane is prog.
Ineverthoughtof youwhenI wrote it, nortoanyspecificpersonhere, and Ireally do not knowwhyyourecognizeyourselfin it. Anyway - I'msorry. Please accept my apologies. I should have to think about that someone could recognize himself / herself in that my abstraction. Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane the single isearlyprog in the classic meaning of the term "prog", doesn'tmatter what wiki said. It's justmoremelodic(aside fromthe qualityof the music itself, techhology possiblities back then, etc) than today's Crossover Prog - the PA genre that it is most close to THE single; also, it's nothing less prog than e.g. I Talk To The Wiind and (or) Epitaph.
And I just want to point out that the early prog was way more melodic ("popular") music than today and that is that.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: February 02 2015 at 03:08
The Dark Elf wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Lear'sFool wrote:
^ Which makes it weird that you'd insult American musical mores, being that The Doors and Kansas were drenched in it.
Plus if you like any British blues rock, you owe Mississippi and Chicago a solid.
I mentioned about 8 bands from 1 million bands. I reckon they would have close to the smallest percentage of strong bands per population in the world
That's plainly silly and so nearsighted that I am surprised you can type on your computer. Besides the ridiculously few you mentioned, there was Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, The Byrds, The Band, Creedence Clearwater Revival, 13th Floor Elevators, Captain Beefheart, Jefferson Airplane, The Grateful Dead, MC5, Iggy and the Stooges, The Velvet Underground, Canned Heat, The Allman Brothers, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Neil Young, Simon & Garfunkel, Dixie Dregs, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Alice Cooper, The Talking Heads, The Ramones, Patti Smith...
I can go on and on, and I haven't even mentioned blues greats like Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Albert Collins, Howlin' Wolf, Johnny Winter, John Lee Hooker, Willie Dixon and Stevie Ray Vaughan, or R&B or funk masters like Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, War, Parliament, Sly and the Family Stone, etc., and NEARLY EVERY JAZZ GREAT IN THE HISTORY OF THE GENRE.
When certain folks get so close-minded when it comes to prog (and only a small proportion of prog, it seems) that they become obviously and overwhelmingly stultified, I have to shake my head, because I can't reach through the PC monitor and shake them from their intellectual malaise.
I'm with you in this subject. For example, earlyprog from your country isneglectedactually.You will not find SteveMillerBandin that PA proto-progsection, although that's a band whowerereleased in 1968 twoalbums thatare 100%prog; furthermore, NickLogan called Children of The Future and Sailor as "cornerstones of progressive rock" in hisThe Illustrated New Musical ExpressEncyclopedia of Rockthe book (1977)
Pet Sounds and The SMILE Sessions is "not enough" to put the Beach Boys in proto-prog section; all that psychedelic background and three 100% prog albums by the Grateful Dead is "not enough" to put that great band in proto-prog section; you can see a long debate about Miles Davis, is he belong to PA or not, but you never see the same debate about e.g. Jan Garbarek who is also here although he has nothing more or less connected to prog than Miles, and so on.
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: February 02 2015 at 04:47
erm, in my copy it says "...recorded two albums that are still regarded as milestones, Children of the Future and Sailor" .. he does not call them 'cornerstones of progressive rock'. However, he does go on to say "The former was regarded as perhaps the best example of progressive rock to emanate from 1968" (my emphasis), though he does not say who regarded it as perhaps the best example.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
Posted: February 02 2015 at 05:25
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
dr prog wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. (...)
You have it backwards, I am afraid. It's pop at it best with elements of prog. You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions. Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog. And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know
Of course, doc.
After 40 years of listening to prog, I certainly can not have the same views on what is and what is not prog as someone who, for example, was born in the eighties, in nineties listened to bullsh*t techno music and (if) adding a bit of TDSotM, then accidentally bumped into this site in '00s, and finnaly due to, say, "political correctness" toward influential collabs, has become also a collaborator i.e. "Prog God"
First off, I got confused by the 'pyramid' of linked comments and thought your original comment was made by Doc. So the part about prejudiced point of view etc wasn't intended for you and I am sorry for the mix up. With that out of the way...
Oh wow getting personal, are we? Carry on. It is evident there are certain things age hasn't taught you, which is not to assume so much that you end up landing your foot as a whole piece in your mouth. Bullsh*t techno music? The music I heard through the 90s is far more progressive than most of the stuff that gets called prog on this website. You have no idea whatsoever about my tastes so don't attempt to presume. However, whether Penny Lane is prog isn't a matter of taste but music classification. Penny Lane was no.1 on the Billboard hot 100 singles chart in 1967. It was on a "20 greatest Beatles tracks" compilation tape I used to have (this was in the bullsh*t techno 90s by the way), along side Hello Goodbye, Let It Be, She Loves You. If Penny Lane is prog, then, for one thing, it accounts for the flood of additions you post in the Suggestions Thread. Just because you have been hearing prog for 40 years doesn't necessarily mean you know any better and you don't exactly make a great case in that regard when you say Penny Lane is prog.
Ineverthoughtof youwhenI wrote it, nortoanyspecificpersonhere, and Ireally do not knowwhyyourecognizeyourselfin it. Anyway - I'msorry. Please accept my apologies. I should have to think about that someone could recognize himself / herself in that my abstraction. Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane the single isearlyprog in the classic meaning of the term "prog", doesn'tmatter what wiki said. It's justmoremelodic(aside fromthe qualityof the music itself, techhology possiblities back then, etc) than today's Crossover Prog - the PA genre that it is most close to THE single; also, it's nothing less prog than e.g. I Talk To The Wiind and (or) Epitaph.
And I just want to point out that the early prog was way more melodic ("popular") music than today and that is that.
I am perceptive enough to distinguish between veiled insults and abstraction but I'll let that be.
As for Penny Lane, over so many years of listening to old timers describe prog on this forum as well as others, this must be the first time I have heard Penny Lane described as prog. It is on the other hand widely accepted as pop by the mainstream. I tend to go along with THAT with due respect to your opinion. It may be prog as be YOUR definition of it but I would be highly skeptical that it meets the classic meaning of the term prog unless I am shown at least some literature dating back to the time that described it as prog. And I mean just prog or progressive rock, not the adjective 'progressive' by itself. Penny Lane is progressive, and a lot of progressive music isn't prog rock.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: February 02 2015 at 05:36
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
dr prog wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. (...)
You have it backwards, I am afraid. It's pop at it best with elements of prog. You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions. Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog. And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know
Of course, doc.
After 40 years of listening to prog, I certainly can not have the same views on what is and what is not prog as someone who, for example, was born in the eighties, in nineties listened to bullsh*t techno music and (if) adding a bit of TDSotM, then accidentally bumped into this site in '00s, and finnaly due to, say, "political correctness" toward influential collabs, has become also a collaborator i.e. "Prog God"
First off, I got confused by the 'pyramid' of linked comments and thought your original comment was made by Doc. So the part about prejudiced point of view etc wasn't intended for you and I am sorry for the mix up. With that out of the way...
Oh wow getting personal, are we? Carry on. It is evident there are certain things age hasn't taught you, which is not to assume so much that you end up landing your foot as a whole piece in your mouth. Bullsh*t techno music? The music I heard through the 90s is far more progressive than most of the stuff that gets called prog on this website. You have no idea whatsoever about my tastes so don't attempt to presume. However, whether Penny Lane is prog isn't a matter of taste but music classification. Penny Lane was no.1 on the Billboard hot 100 singles chart in 1967. It was on a "20 greatest Beatles tracks" compilation tape I used to have (this was in the bullsh*t techno 90s by the way), along side Hello Goodbye, Let It Be, She Loves You. If Penny Lane is prog, then, for one thing, it accounts for the flood of additions you post in the Suggestions Thread. Just because you have been hearing prog for 40 years doesn't necessarily mean you know any better and you don't exactly make a great case in that regard when you say Penny Lane is prog.
Ineverthoughtof youwhenI wrote it, nortoanyspecificpersonhere, and Ireally do not knowwhyyourecognizeyourselfin it. Anyway - I'msorry. Please accept my apologies. I should have to think about that someone could recognize himself / herself in that my abstraction. Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane the single isearlyprog in the classic meaning of the term "prog", doesn'tmatter what wiki said. It's justmoremelodic(aside fromthe qualityof the music itself, techhology possiblities back then, etc) than today's Crossover Prog - the PA genre that it is most close to THE single; also, it's nothing less prog than e.g. I Talk To The Wiind and (or) Epitaph.
And I just want to point out that the early prog was way more melodic ("popular") music than today and that is that.
I am perceptive enough to distinguish between veiled insults and abstraction but I'll let that be.
As for Penny Lane, over so many years of listening to old timers describe prog on this forum as well as others, this must be the first time I have heard Penny Lane described as prog. It is on the other hand widely accepted as pop by the mainstream. I tend to go along with THAT with due respect to your opinion. It may be prog as be YOUR definition of it but I would be highly skeptical that it meets the classic meaning of the term prog unless I am shown at least some literature dating back to the time that described it as prog. And I mean just prog or progressive rock, not the adjective 'progressive' by itself. Penny Lane is progressive, and a lot of progressive music isn't prog rock.
I don't think that the term even existed at the time when Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane the single was released. However, I don't listening to that ancient but timeless single through Bilboard single charts nor wiki, I listening to THE single with my own ears and I hear PROG ("Crossover Prog" if you like).
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
Posted: February 02 2015 at 05:59
Altairius wrote:
Also good from the US: Return to Forever, Steely Dan, Utopia, Yezda Urfa, Cathedral, Mike Keneally, Thinking Plague, Djam Karet
I like several countries better but the US has plenty of great artists. If nothing else, jazz fusion came out of it.
Jazz Rock, yes, but also PROGRESSIVE ROCK came from U.S nothing less than from England. The fact is that Freak Out! and (or) Sailor have nothing to do with Symphonic rock as a prog sub-genre that was invented in England, but it doesn't mean that mentioned early prog albums by these legendary U.S. bands are not prog.
Joined: June 21 2006
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Points: 981
Posted: February 02 2015 at 06:16
There are many tracks that can be called prog that wouldn't launch a new genre by themselves, because you'd say "this is psyche inventive classic oriented" this or that. Then there would be THE first one that'd have you say "now this clearly defines a new genre" (for many, me included, ITCOTCK would be it).
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Why old prog - for me - is better than new prog
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