When will the album format in prog go away? |
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Xonty
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 23 2013 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 1759 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 05:20 | |
Well, the album format's already disappeared for about 99% of music listeners, and you can already listen to stuff like Starless without Providence. To be honest, I don't think people will ever stop listening to the 70s prog classics in full, because it wasn't just an inconvenience you couldn't hear single songs (as they use concepts and themes).
Seeing how the CD era has long gone, it's clear that prog acts want to keep this idea of conceptual albums/complete works, instead of singles. Around the 90s, there were more albums reaching an hour's length, and since the 21st century, the ease of hearing music digitally meant they could expand to as long as they want. If you look at the top prog albums of 2014, you'll notice how they're averagely 80 minutes long. I hope this keeps on happening, until album's reach something like 3 hours, so fewer people listen to them and it takes longer for each band to make them, and for new bands to keep up. Then there's some kind of punk revolution with prog bands, and they start doing 3-minute concept singles. Call me a dreamer...
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26171 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 05:23 | |
What happens if your only one track is also the whole album like Djam Karet's The Trip or Mike Oldfield's Amarok? Basically trying to restrict an artists vision is just a really bad idea. I don't see any rules in place that need to be adhered to anyway as far as releasing music. Also how do you decide what a good song is before people have heard it? I guess we could have something like the film industry. Preview copy is sent out to the fans . The majority decide the end to the song is just too negative and makes them feel bad so it goes back to the band to cheer it up a bit. Yep that would great! Roger please change the end of The Wall as its just not the upbeat happy ending I want. Thanks Mate.
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10215 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 06:03 | |
What's wrong with Providence? It's a nice appetizer before the main dish
Less good tracks are important to me, because I appreciate the better ones even more. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 06:10 | |
Came along to the thread late, but !! Just to of course mention that my last album had a 36 minute track on it. Loads of things are possible, artists aren't constrained by track or album length anymore.
Problem is, listeners are. Not many people sit though a symphonic length track, now. Everyone expects three minute wonders, as that's what they're conditioned to. More's the pity.
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Status: Offline Points: 2689 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 08:47 | |
People haven't been conditioned to three minute wonders since fifty years ago (when the jukebox companies lost their control over song length and Dylan wrote Like A Rolling Stone).
Especially prog fans, obviously - show me a prog fan who doesn't want to listen to anything longer than five minutes and I'll show you a liar. Edited by Stool Man - January 31 2015 at 08:48 |
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 09:04 | |
I understand exactly what a lot of you are saying but if push comes to shove, the industry is not going to listen to people like us. We are collectors who do not want to give up the format that we believe is the only way to enjoy music.
But the fact is that we are in the minority, not the majority of music buyers. In this world, industry does not produce what they want, they produce what the consumer wants. Right now the majority of consumers want as many songs as they can cram into their hand held device. Ipod capacity is not in the hundreds of songs, it's in the thousands of songs. And where does the average listener get all those songs? They get them off the internet and usually for free. If the trend continues this way, and it probably will, the music producing industry won't give a rat's rear end about concept albums or fifty-five minutes of music that were meant to be one complete body of work. |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 09:07 | |
conditioning? oh man that is bullsh*t.
Most people simply have short attention spans. Again for the 99% of normal people. Music is about emotional impact, not a f**king intellectual exercise. That is what they make books for. To stimulate the mind, music is for the senses, the soul, the heart. Of course that does not apply to everyone. Thus you have hardcore prog fan. Most enjoy prog as simply one entree on a much larger menu. Really the ones that are conditioned are the hardcore extremist prog fans that think ..well.. you have to be conditioned yourself to enjoy and see the value and validity of something that can say in 3 minutes what others strive to do in 20 minutes. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Son of Gorp
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 25 2014 Location: Kyrgyzstan Status: Offline Points: 146 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:00 | |
Given the choice, I listen to both single songs and full albums, depending on my mood. Why should I listen to a full album if I have somewhere to go or something else to do? But if I have the time, I do usually like listening to full albums.
I also like acquiring a taste for albums (sometimes) by listening to a couple stand out tracks on that album. Once I know that I like what I hear, I can dive in and enjoy the whole album easier.
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When Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanik, you just know.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:08 | |
(Falls about laughing )
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:10 | |
The whole point of PROG ROCK, folks, is that it P R O G R E S S E D past the staid and stale three minute formula songs of the day.
However, as Micky actually rightly says, most people DO have short attention spans, so we've kind of reverted back to three minutes. The return of the idiotocracy.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:17 | |
aye... and after 40 years it became something just as staid and formulatic as the 3 minute song it originally rebelled against.. thus a large segment of todays scene is moving away from worn out and formulmatic style of prog... and more back to progressive rock. The original spirit of it in the first place. Instead of rebelling against bubble-gum pop.. it is against the moth-eaten, tapped out, and mostly completely regurgitated notion of prog rock. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:21 | |
Edited by HackettFan - January 31 2015 at 10:23 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:25 | |
Hi Micky - fair enough. ;-)
You see, the problem I have with that is....... I don't write music for the general public. Nor do I write music for "prog fans". I write music for myself. It happens to be about 40 mins long. ;-) I think when lots of musicians start writing music for themselves, and not for fans or commercial interests, we'll see something interesting happening. The length of a piece of music doesn't guarantee quality, of course - listen to a lot of trance music - but it allows you to go in directions which a three minute song won't let you. Sorry, if most of the general public don't have long attention spans........... that's their problem. ;-)
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:27 | |
I have mentioned in another thread the frustration of hearing the shortened version of Light My Fire on am radio. There was a time when 2:45 was the industry standard length of a song and going over 3:00 was unheard of.
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13239 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:28 | |
Edison's Children did an album with 3 tracks. Track 3 lasts 67 minutes. What's your point?
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:43 | |
The point, Angelo, is that there are some here arguing for shorter prog songs.... and some arguing for longer ones. The idea is that song length is somehow good or bad.
It's neither. I think the important thing for any album is that the artist actually does what inspires him..... and lets it find his own level. Yes, there are staid and boring and formulaic prog rock albums. That's because they follow a formula, as Micky says. Where I don't agree with him is that people aren't conditioned to listen to shorter tracks. Prog waxes and wanes - it was a rebellion against simplistic and formulaic music. However, most people, granted, have short attention spans so the music failed commercially in the late 70's and we returned to the norm of formulaic, saleable music. With the rise of new technology, musicians can do what they want. Most don't. Most follow set rules and patterns, ie album should be this long, contain x tracks, x instrumentation. I say rip it up. When you accept that no one will buy really innovative or cutting edge music, you're free to do whatever you want. There are pluses to the modern scene - I sit here with more kit than I know what to do with - and minuses - the live gig environment has gone, people won't pay for music - but the times they are a changin', as they always will do, and good for that.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:44 | |
Oh yes, that was an absolute facepalm moment. My radio nearly went out of the window. ;-) |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:47 | |
Good morning HackettFan
When I say industry I mean the people (producers, labels, etc) who decide what music gets made and released in the first place. I'm sure they are well aware of the fact that a lot of people download for free or pay $1.50 for one song instead of twelve or fourteen bucks for a complete CD. When they see changes in the consumers' buying habits the will adjust accordingly. They are, and always have been, in the business to make money. Key words here are consumers' buying habits.
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:49 | |
I knew at exactly what point the short version was being played and punched in another station to avoid hearing it.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
Posted: January 31 2015 at 10:51 | |
I am the producer of my own music. And I decide what I release independent of money. :-)
Actually, I'm not sure how many of the general public go off piste and look for new, Indie bands on Bandcamp et al. But is the argument of "consumers' buying habits" relevant to prog rock, a minor spin off genre ? The thread title here is "when will the album format...... go away ?" It's already gone, you can download single tracks anywhere. Next thread, please.
Edited by Davesax1965 - January 31 2015 at 11:01 |
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