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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 09:23
Yes, but to what end?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 10:29
It's insulting and very sad to me how supposedly a majority of Prog musicians fall in line and making the same decisions. When they all seem to follow the same path...Prog Rock fans feel a bit cheated and along with stressing that the music sounds too much like 70's Progressive Rock....when all along..they were probably innocently trying it out. As a result of what they bring to the table, some Prog fans might react to them like this: "Well..don't listen to "Neo Prog" and stick to the 70's" Prog....or...."You're not discovering the right bands and so you are dislocated in that sense"....or.....The opposed: "Neo Prog" is not like the 70's and you're not hearing the music for it's true identity."
 
If many of you are hearing a repeated version of 70's Prog in the "Neo Prog", you will have to accept the new generation and how it relates to art. That could be an unfortunate series of disappointing discoveries because , good or bad, people are relating to art in a different way than the 70's. The way people reacted to art in the 70's was a vital energetic substance to Progressive Rock. That alone..was pushing Progressive Rock musicians beyond their boundaries. It basically meant..that if there was this abundance of interest in the audience , that they would work twice as hard to be original about it. Even "Going For The One" ..to various degrees resurfaced the memory of the early 70's Progressive Rock, but took it steps further by altering the sound with more modern keyboard settings and further adventurous guitar soloing/writing.

 
Creating music that was progressive and changing it's sound and composition to something new without emulating what the composer had written 2 or 3 years before was suppose to continue after the 70's and it sort of died out. Keith Emerson had written Tarkus and for the next 3 years...everyone else was attempting to write another Tarkus while he was writing Karn Evil 9. By the time Progressive Rock bands were emulating the Brain Salad Surgery album, Emerson was already on his way to recording a progressive piece with an orchestra featured on Works Vol.1     There was more pressure on a Progressive Rock musician in the 70's to be original and further changing the music. Tony Banks always states something/anything, about how the early Genesis wasn't gaining enough popularity in the U.S. until Selling England By The Pound or The Lamb and truly..loads of kids in N.J. and P.A. bought the Foxtrot album and were already discussing how the next Genesis album would sound. All that support and pressure was in the air during the 70's Progressive Rock scene...unlike today's standards in which diseases like "Short Attention Span" have overthrown our Prog government and reduced it's original meaning to a minimum or poverty level which in some cases explains why several Prog events like fests...are cancelled due to lack of ticket sales.  



Edited by TODDLER - February 23 2015 at 10:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 11:01
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

It's insulting and very sad to me how supposedly a majority of Prog musicians fall in line and making the same decisions. When they all seem to follow the same path...Prog Rock fans feel a bit cheated and along with stressing that the music sounds too much like 70's Progressive Rock....when all along..they were probably innocently trying it out. As a result of what they bring to the table, some Prog fans might react to them like this: "Well..don't listen to "Neo Prog" and stick to the 70's" Prog....or...."You're not discovering the right bands and so you are dislocated in that sense"....or.....The opposed: "Neo Prog" is not like the 70's and you're not hearing the music for it's true identity."
 
If many of you are hearing a repeated version of 70's Prog in the "Neo Prog", you will have to accept the new generation and how it relates to art. That could be an unfortunate series of disappointing discoveries because , good or bad, people are relating to art in a different way than the 70's. The way people reacted to art in the 70's was a vital energetic substance to Progressive Rock. That alone..was pushing Progressive Rock musicians beyond their boundaries. It basically meant..that if there was this abundance of interest in the audience , that they would work twice as hard to be original about it. Even "Going For The One" ..to various degrees resurfaced the memory of the early 70's Progressive Rock, but took it steps further by altering the sound with more modern keyboard settings and further adventurous guitar soloing/writing.

 
Creating music that was progressive and changing it's sound and composition to something new without emulating what the composer had written 2 or 3 years before was suppose to continue after the 70's and it sort of died out. Keith Emerson had written Tarkus and for the next 3 years...everyone else was attempting to write another Tarkus while he was writing Karn Evil 9. By the time Progressive Rock bands were emulating the Brain Salad Surgery album, Emerson was already on his way to recording a progressive piece with an orchestra featured on Works Vol.1     There was more pressure on a Progressive Rock musician in the 70's to be original and further changing the music. Tony Banks always states something/anything, about how the early Genesis wasn't gaining enough popularity in the U.S. until Selling England By The Pound or The Lamb and truly..loads of kids in N.J. and P.A. bought the Foxtrot album and were already discussing how the next Genesis album would sound. All that support and pressure was in the air during the 70's Progressive Rock scene...unlike today's standards in which diseases like "Short Attention Span" have overthrown our Prog government and reduced it's original meaning to a minimum or poverty level which in some cases explains why several Prog events like fests...are cancelled due to lack of ticket sales.  


So much this, and now I begin to notice what SteveG was talking about how the discussion is derailing to "Prog vs Progressive". So, progressive rock is about _progression_ rather than an established style. How moshkito can confuse this with mere similiarities in instrumentation, and make the analogy of conductors interpreting classical works in different ways, is beyond me. Romantic era composers progressed from the Wien Classical, and so forth.  Wien Classical had it's place and time in the history of man just like the 70's prog rock did. But classical composers progressed, as did Jazz. The conductor analogy is only relevant if we were to have other bands cover a Genesis song in a different tempo or make some other change to the source material. It's hardly the same as modern prog bands living in the past and sacrificing an unique musical identity to an already established one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 11:08
^Yes, this is why I'm not a particular fan of Neo-prog and go towards groups and genres outside of the classic prog style like Extreme/Tech and Experimental/Post Rock,  in a quest to find something new or at least something not as dusty sounding as the more mainline prog genres.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 19:13

Can the early 70s prog sound be cloned nowadays?


Probably....wheel up a Mellotron, a Rickenbacker bass, some warbling lads singing harmony in counter-tenor, and let fly! 

The same could be asked of "Can the original blues sound be cloned nowadays?"

Living in Chicago, I am forced to tolerate any number of all-white, "cool blues" musicians who attempt to portray themselves as offering the "real deal."  

F 'em.  I saw Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers in the early 1970s, when he played to a 100% white college age audience.  At one point, he shouted "Have you ever had the blues??"  All the white kids started to cheer and clap, and he snarled "You ain't NEVER had the blues!!" 

I understood what he meant - the original blues musicians had to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, VD, violence, robbery.....it was not an easy life.  To try to rip that off by strapping on a Stratocaster and playing "Sweet Home Chicago" is a bit repellant to me. 

Same for early 70's prog.  We musicians can play something that sounds like it, but we aren't the British/German/Dutch children who were born right after WWII in ruined nations....nor do we have the same societal pressures such as revulsion over the Viet Nam war, potential nuclear annihilation etc.  

I've written music and played it for people who said "You sound like Yes!" or "You sound like early Genesis," to which I might reply "You ain't NEVER had the prog!!"  I haven't, I've just been an outside observer.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 19:22
Charles, if you can clone this, I'll be over to your house before tomorrow afternoon!LOL 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 01:20
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Yes, this is why I'm not a particular fan of Neo-prog and go towards groups and genres outside of the classic prog style like Extreme/Tech and Experimental/Post Rock,  in a quest to find something new or at least something not as dusty sounding as the more mainline prog genres.
 
I understand your stance on neo prog but what do you think of something like Pallas - Dreams Of Men? That to me sounds nothing like seventies prog , not even the merest hint. There is neo prog and then there is neo prog. As usual we are hung up on labels.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 01:26
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Can the early 70s prog sound be cloned nowadays?


Probably....wheel up a Mellotron, a Rickenbacker bass, some warbling lads singing harmony in counter-tenor, and let fly! 

The same could be asked of "Can the original blues sound be cloned nowadays?"

Living in Chicago, I am forced to tolerate any number of all-white, "cool blues" musicians who attempt to portray themselves as offering the "real deal."  

F 'em.  I saw Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers in the early 1970s, when he played to a 100% white college age audience.  At one point, he shouted "Have you ever had the blues??"  All the white kids started to cheer and clap, and he snarled "You ain't NEVER had the blues!!" 

I understood what he meant - the original blues musicians had to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, VD, violence, robbery.....it was not an easy life.  To try to rip that off by strapping on a Stratocaster and playing "Sweet Home Chicago" is a bit repellant to me. 

Same for early 70's prog.  We musicians can play something that sounds like it, but we aren't the British/German/Dutch children who were born right after WWII in ruined nations....nor do we have the same societal pressures such as revulsion over the Viet Nam war, potential nuclear annihilation etc.  

I've written music and played it for people who said "You sound like Yes!" or "You sound like early Genesis," to which I might reply "You ain't NEVER had the prog!!"  I haven't, I've just been an outside observer.  
 
The seventies was a unique time for music , in fact so was the sixties and eighties for that matter. I have to admit that since then everything seems a bit of a 'fudge'. A very popular band nowadays that I like is Muse and they combine a whole load of elements derived mainly from the 70's (prog) , 80's (techno) and 90's ( a bit of straight rock influenced by their peers ( Oasis) ) and somehow make it work for them. I'm not sure what that means in the general argument other than it seems quite a cool thing to do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 04:31
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

<h1><span style="font-weight: normal;">Can the early 70s prog sound be cloned nowadays?</span></h1>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">
</span>
Probably....wheel up a Mellotron, a Rickenbacker bass, some warbling lads singing harmony in counter-tenor, and let fly! 

The same could be asked of "Can the original blues sound be cloned nowadays?"

Living in Chicago, I am forced to tolerate any number of all-white, "cool blues" musicians who attempt to portray themselves as offering the "real deal."  

F 'em.  I saw Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers in the early 1970s, when he played to a 100% white college age audience.  At one point, he shouted "Have you ever had the blues??"  All the white kids started to cheer and clap, and he snarled "You ain't NEVER had the blues!!" 

I understood what he meant - the original blues musicians had to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, VD, violence, robbery.....it was not an easy life.  To try to rip that off by strapping on a Stratocaster and playing "Sweet Home Chicago" is a bit repellant to me. 

Same for early 70's prog.  We musicians can play something that sounds like it, but we aren't the British/German/Dutch children who were born right after WWII in ruined nations....nor do we have the same societal pressures such as revulsion over the Viet Nam war, potential nuclear annihilation etc.  

I've written music and played it for people who said "You sound like Yes!" or "You sound like early Genesis," to which I might reply "You ain't NEVER had the prog!!"  I haven't, I've just been an outside observer.  

 
The seventies was a unique time for music , in fact so was the sixties and eighties for that matter. I have to admit that since then everything seems a bit of a 'fudge'. A very popular band nowadays that I like is Muse and they combine a whole load of elements derived mainly from the 70's (prog) , 80's (techno) and 90's ( a bit of straight rock influenced by their peers ( Oasis) ) and somehow make it work for them. I'm not sure what that means in the general argument other than it seems quite a cool thing to do.


Muse are a bit of an anomoly in modern relatively mainstream music, because they are actually very good musicians. That's pretty unusual imo, and in some camps almost frowned upon.

Late one night on BBC radio 4 some mooks were reviewing albums - at the time The Resistance came out - and this girl was saying how refreshing it was to hear a band pushing the boundaries a little, blending styles, messing things up a bit and writing passionate songs, and some guy laughed and said, I thought we'd left all that rubbish behind in the 70's.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 08:25
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

 ...
Creating music that was progressive and changing it's sound and composition to something new without emulating what the composer had written 2 or 3 years before was suppose to continue after the 70's and it sort of died out.
...
 
I don't think it died out ... it just went somewhere else because it was not wanted at home anymore ... what else is new? We leave when we reach the age!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 09:02
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Yes, this is why I'm not a particular fan of Neo-prog and go towards groups and genres outside of the classic prog style like Extreme/Tech and Experimental/Post Rock,  in a quest to find something new or at least something not as dusty sounding as the more mainline prog genres.
 
I understand your stance on neo prog but what do you think of something like Pallas - Dreams Of Men? That to me sounds nothing like seventies prog , not even the merest hint. There is neo prog and then there is neo prog. As usual we are hung up on labels.
As my dear old dad used to say "Even a broken watch shows the correct time twice a day." LOL
 
Sometimes people get hung up on quotes that appear to be sweeping generalizations. My quote was not.
 
 "Not being a particular fan of Neo-prog" is not the same as saying I dismiss all Neo-prog out of hand.  In fact, I'm listening to Solstice's newest album as I type this. Shocked And I have the newest album by Mostly Autumn readied to follow.


Edited by SteveG - February 24 2015 at 09:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 09:22
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 "Not being a particular fan of Neo-prog" is not the same as saying I dismiss all Neo-prog out of hand.  In fact, I'm listening to Solstice's newest album as I type this. Shocked And I have the newest album by Mostly Autumn readied to follow.
 
I would be more concerned with folks listening to a "label", than otherwise. I find that bizarre, actually, because one is shutting down other venues of music ... and one is not exactly listening to "music" per se, and I guarantee that they will dry out of their "fad". For my tastes and 50 years of history and friends with and in music, the ones that fell out of the whole thing were the ones that only liked "disco", or "blues" or crap, or (probably "neo-prog" in the future!
 
You're limiting your musical experience and taste and eventually you will tire of it faster!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 12:15
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

 ...
Creating music that was progressive and changing it's sound and composition to something new without emulating what the composer had written 2 or 3 years before was suppose to continue after the 70's and it sort of died out.
...
 
I don't think it died out ... it just went somewhere else because it was not wanted at home anymore ... what else is new? We leave when we reach the age!
 
 
 
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. Reaching the age? If it means what  think it means ...then did Segovia reach the age? I think not. It's still just music/magic and how you expand through it. What's the lame excuse for a majority of Prog music lacking in the area of creativity today and leaving the better choice of being creative to a minority of "Neo Prog" bands?   


Edited by TODDLER - February 24 2015 at 12:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 14:15
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

<h1><span style="font-weight: normal;">Can the early 70s prog sound be cloned nowadays?</span></h1>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">
</span>
Probably....wheel up a Mellotron, a Rickenbacker bass, some warbling lads singing harmony in counter-tenor, and let fly! 

The same could be asked of "Can the original blues sound be cloned nowadays?"

Living in Chicago, I am forced to tolerate any number of all-white, "cool blues" musicians who attempt to portray themselves as offering the "real deal."  

F 'em.  I saw Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers in the early 1970s, when he played to a 100% white college age audience.  At one point, he shouted "Have you ever had the blues??"  All the white kids started to cheer and clap, and he snarled "You ain't NEVER had the blues!!" 

I understood what he meant - the original blues musicians had to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, VD, violence, robbery.....it was not an easy life.  To try to rip that off by strapping on a Stratocaster and playing "Sweet Home Chicago" is a bit repellant to me. 

Same for early 70's prog.  We musicians can play something that sounds like it, but we aren't the British/German/Dutch children who were born right after WWII in ruined nations....nor do we have the same societal pressures such as revulsion over the Viet Nam war, potential nuclear annihilation etc.  

I've written music and played it for people who said "You sound like Yes!" or "You sound like early Genesis," to which I might reply "You ain't NEVER had the prog!!"  I haven't, I've just been an outside observer.  

 
The seventies was a unique time for music , in fact so was the sixties and eighties for that matter. I have to admit that since then everything seems a bit of a 'fudge'. A very popular band nowadays that I like is Muse and they combine a whole load of elements derived mainly from the 70's (prog) , 80's (techno) and 90's ( a bit of straight rock influenced by their peers ( Oasis) ) and somehow make it work for them. I'm not sure what that means in the general argument other than it seems quite a cool thing to do.


Muse are a bit of an anomoly in modern relatively mainstream music, because they are actually very good musicians. That's pretty unusual imo, and in some camps almost frowned upon.

Late one night on BBC radio 4 some mooks were reviewing albums - at the time The Resistance came out - and this girl was saying how refreshing it was to hear a band pushing the boundaries a little, blending styles, messing things up a bit and writing passionate songs, and some guy laughed and said, I thought we'd left all that rubbish behind in the 70's.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 14:15

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:


 ...
Creating music that was progressive and changing it's sound and composition to something new without emulating what the composer had written 2 or 3 years before was suppose to continue after the 70's and it sort of died out.
...

 
I don't think it died out ... it just went somewhere else because it was not wanted at home anymore ... what else is new? We leave when we reach the age!
 
 

 
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. Reaching the age? If it means what  think it means ...then did Segovia reach the age? I think not. It's still just music/magic and how you expand through it. What's the lame excuse for a majority of Prog music lacking in the area of creativity today and leaving the better choice of being creative to a minority of "Neo Prog" bands?  

I don't think that ANY process died out. A lot of the music continues even when it's out of style, and 'disco" is a perfect example ... but when it's done by U2 on a place in Paris it's considered cool, but here ... no one cares! My joke is all kids end up leaving home, anyway, and my take is that music/arts only dies when the country/population dies, and it could be said that Europe lost a lot due to WW2 ... and even Edgar Froese made a comment about it in that special.

I do not think, like you that there is a lack of creativity, that is more of a sign of blinders on the person that can not see or hear it, than it is a fact about the music itself. The only other issue is that it doesn't matter if it is "neo-prog" or "neo-crap" since the definitions are so poorly designed that Bob Dylan is neo-folk because he is not like Woody Guthrie ... because of a bizarre, and not specifically defined, btw, since there is no constant and different websites adhere to different things to make their case.

I thought the same thing about theater, about 100 years ago, that became known as "neo-realism" (or neo-naturalism)which was another way to say that it was a copy of the original ... and sure enough in one play in Europe, they even put together a REAL butcher shop and you could smell it! How's that for bizarre, that a group of folks is so poor at showing you, and telling you anything that they have to make sure "you know" what they are about!

I don't need music, literature or film or theater to do that for me ... but I find it bizarre that some folks have to have a "label" to even consider listening to it! Or worse ... only if it has a label will they listen to it, like Christian or any other designation! Or my favorite ... "dark"!



Edited by moshkito - February 24 2015 at 14:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2015 at 19:54
When I hear, say, Steven Wilson sure I hear echoes of 70s prog- a few riffs here or there mind me of a MB, KC, Genesis, or ELP. But only shades. He is not trying to repeat the past or even pay homage. He's creating his own music and intends on progressing toward new styles and instrumentation,

Do we really need a "cloning" of early prog? I think not. If you want to hear the old stuff, just listen to it again. I do. It gets me through the day. But I'd rather have new guys like Wilson doing their own thing, cuz it works.

Tech is different now too. Remember that Moog monster Emerson used to play? sh*t that thing looked scary! Now the same or better sound can come out of a much smaller instrument. Mellotrons? Are they even around anymore? Even tho the MB and KC used them, they kind of sound "tinny" now, Even though I love the sound and the incorporation in the MB music. Nowadays, they don't use a mellotron on tour- just a small synth/organ Julie Ragins plays.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2015 at 03:00
Originally posted by SkeptiGal SkeptiGal wrote:

When I hear, say, Steven Wilson sure I hear echoes of 70s prog- a few riffs here or there mind me of a MB, KC, Genesis, or ELP. But only shades. He is not trying to repeat the past or even pay homage. He's creating his own music and intends on progressing toward new styles and instrumentation,

Do we really need a "cloning" of early prog? I think not. If you want to hear the old stuff, just listen to it again. I do. It gets me through the day. But I'd rather have new guys like Wilson doing their own thing, cuz it works.

Tech is different now too. Remember that Moog monster Emerson used to play? sh*t that thing looked scary! Now the same or better sound can come out of a much smaller instrument. Mellotrons? Are they even around anymore? Even tho the MB and KC used them, they kind of sound "tinny" now, Even though I love the sound and the incorporation in the MB music. Nowadays, they don't use a mellotron on tour- just a small synth/organ Julie Ragins plays.



I would have agreed with you about Wilson being clearly inspired by 70's Prog but not necessarily in thrall to it (together with earlier and later developments of course e.g. I hear a bit of Psychedelia and a lot of Post-Punk in his music) However, there are sections of the otherwise excellent The Raven That Refused to Sing that for the first time since his Floyd drenched juvenilia, smack of the sort of textural homage to early Crimson, Rush and erm....Floyd that the likes of Tranatlantic and Wobbler churn out seemingly effortlessly to great acclaim. Maybe Mr W needs to take a break, as someone as prolific as he has been over the last few years is bound to betray some signs of cracks starting to show?...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2015 at 03:25
Originally posted by SkeptiGal SkeptiGal wrote:

When I hear, say, Steven Wilson sure I hear echoes of 70s prog- a few riffs here or there mind me of a MB, KC, Genesis, or ELP. But only shades. He is not trying to repeat the past or even pay homage. He's creating his own music and intends on progressing toward new styles and instrumentation,

Do we really need a "cloning" of early prog? I think not. If you want to hear the old stuff, just listen to it again. I do. It gets me through the day. But I'd rather have new guys like Wilson doing their own thing, cuz it works.

Tech is different now too. Remember that Moog monster Emerson used to play? sh*t that thing looked scary! Now the same or better sound can come out of a much smaller instrument. Mellotrons? Are they even around anymore? Even tho the MB and KC used them, they kind of sound "tinny" now, Even though I love the sound and the incorporation in the MB music. Nowadays, they don't use a mellotron on tour- just a small synth/organ Julie Ragins plays.

Of course we need the retro-prog (cloning") bands, but only if they are quite original in the frame of retro-prog style. Similarly as in visual Art; there are still artists who paint a very original expressionist canvases, although the expressionism is the genre of the late 19th / early 20th century.

Edited by Svetonio - February 25 2015 at 04:10
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2015 at 10:54
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Can the early 70s prog sound be cloned nowadays?


Probably....wheel up a Mellotron, a Rickenbacker bass, some warbling lads singing harmony in counter-tenor, and let fly! 

The same could be asked of "Can the original blues sound be cloned nowadays?"

Living in Chicago, I am forced to tolerate any number of all-white, "cool blues" musicians who attempt to portray themselves as offering the "real deal."  

F 'em.  I saw Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers in the early 1970s, when he played to a 100% white college age audience.  At one point, he shouted "Have you ever had the blues??"  All the white kids started to cheer and clap, and he snarled "You ain't NEVER had the blues!!" 

I understood what he meant - the original blues musicians had to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, VD, violence, robbery.....it was not an easy life.  To try to rip that off by strapping on a Stratocaster and playing "Sweet Home Chicago" is a bit repellant to me. 

Same for early 70's prog.  We musicians can play something that sounds like it, but we aren't the British/German/Dutch children who were born right after WWII in ruined nations....nor do we have the same societal pressures such as revulsion over the Viet Nam war, potential nuclear annihilation etc.  

I've written music and played it for people who said "You sound like Yes!" or "You sound like early Genesis," to which I might reply "You ain't NEVER had the prog!!"  I haven't, I've just been an outside observer.  
 
Hmm......then I guess all the great blues that Clapton,  Beck, Page, Duane Allman,  Vaughan, and the rest played over the years is just so much bullsh*te.....back to the drawing board.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2015 at 13:18
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Can the early 70s prog sound be cloned nowadays?


Probably....wheel up a Mellotron, a Rickenbacker bass, some warbling lads singing harmony in counter-tenor, and let fly! 

The same could be asked of "Can the original blues sound be cloned nowadays?"

Living in Chicago, I am forced to tolerate any number of all-white, "cool blues" musicians who attempt to portray themselves as offering the "real deal."  

F 'em.  I saw Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers in the early 1970s, when he played to a 100% white college age audience.  At one point, he shouted "Have you ever had the blues??"  All the white kids started to cheer and clap, and he snarled "You ain't NEVER had the blues!!" 

I understood what he meant - the original blues musicians had to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, VD, violence, robbery.....it was not an easy life.  To try to rip that off by strapping on a Stratocaster and playing "Sweet Home Chicago" is a bit repellant to me. 

Same for early 70's prog.  We musicians can play something that sounds like it, but we aren't the British/German/Dutch children who were born right after WWII in ruined nations....nor do we have the same societal pressures such as revulsion over the Viet Nam war, potential nuclear annihilation etc.  

I've written music and played it for people who said "You sound like Yes!" or "You sound like early Genesis," to which I might reply "You ain't NEVER had the prog!!"  I haven't, I've just been an outside observer.  
 
Hmm......then I guess all the great blues that Clapton,  Beck, Page, Duane Allman,  Vaughan, and the rest played over the years is just so much bullsh*te.....back to the drawing board.
Wink
 
 
Clapton, Beck, and Page studied the Blues. The British Blues scene was very innovative to the development of Hard Rock. Their guitar tones ...particularly characters like Jeremy Spencer with his Elmore James emulation were cemented into the Blues scene in London. Many of the British guitarists were skilled and eventually met their heroes when they toured the U.S and further presenting them with opportunities to travel back to England and perform/record ...which was very sincere/noble of the British. On the other hand many of the British Blues guitarists lacked more in the area of vocals than guitar playing. The award of "White Boy Blues" was given, but the vocals lacked feeling in the phrasing and even the screaming which was a great aspect to Blues and if it wasn't done right,  it didn't feel right and sounded awkward.

John Mayall sang like "Kermit the Frog", Ian Anderson came across like a Folk singer with a Blues twist and so did Sandy Denny. Chris Farlowe was kind of original and Mike Harrison was soulful. Paul Rodgers was very soulful and unique. John Baldry, Chris Youlden, and Alvin Lee were acceptable. Keith Relf was sometimes horrible sounding and had no business singing Blues. Steve Marriot and Rod Stewart  had an original approach to Blues vocals , but Colin Cooper was just a terrible vocalist approaching Blues music with a total lack of feeling and forced emotions in his voice that were not fitting at all. Ironically Eric Clapton and Peter Green didn't bother to emulate Blues vocals, sang in their natural tone instead, and came across more fitting to the style of music. If you listen to Albert King's "Born Under A Bad Sign" album, most B.B. King albums, or one track in particular by Howlin' Wolf titled "Nature", it's like a breath of fresh air compared to most British singers in the British Blues times. On another note, some of our great Blues Masters in the U.S. recorded a few albums that were Psychedelic...like Muddy Waters and B.B King, and those albums were just completely awful and were far from representing what these Blues guys were all about. Musically it didn't work. The shoe completely did not fit.


Edited by TODDLER - February 25 2015 at 13:19
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