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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20503
Topic: What's the Dope? Drugs and Rock! Posted: March 06 2015 at 08:45
I guess I better voice an opinion before I'm cast as the eternal PA stoner .
I was way too interested and in the actual sound of recordings which I felt was diminished by any drug intake. I remember having a 'eureka' moment at some record listening function, when I suddenly realized that the drums and cymbals of one of the album's tracks that was being played, were recorded separately. Needless to say, the partiers could have cared less about my listening 'discoveries', and I felt the same way about theirs. I did partake of some herbal substance from time to time, but got out of that when I started traveling abroad. Hassles with foreign customs officials was a constant nightmare for me, as I never knew what the roadies or sound techs I was traveling with may have had on their person when arriving in a foreign port of call.
Edited by SteveG - March 06 2015 at 08:46
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Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Points: 15916
Posted: March 06 2015 at 00:24
When I was a young man (as all good stories begin.......), my 3 favourite bands were The Beach Boys, Split Enz and Sherbet. Then I found myself loving the 'We Don't Need No Education' song by 'whoever'. Then The Wall was acquired, then my sis was into Genesis 1983 S/T, I liked what I heard, then followed up on Floyd and Genesis, then Yes, then Iron Maiden (thanks to a friend I didn't see for a few years, then saw again, and he'd 'changed' a bit)....... Then it was Metallica, dope and then following up on most bands that played songs over 7 minutes long. So, music was first, then 'various' mind-expanding antics, lots of dodgy folks, and here I am now..... Lovin' Prog, sober (to an extent), still dealing with f**k-ups from the past 20-odd years later, ( yeah, I should visit the 'shrink' forum) and just lapping up Prog. With that in mind, many things lots of Prog-heads may not find too exciting (I cop a lot of flak regarding Pendragon), blow me away. So the statement of 'taking drugs just to appreciate music' is a rather shallow assumption.
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
Posted: March 05 2015 at 12:46
Dean wrote:
This may be true, but I very much doubt it, it seems a little specious to me. Certainly there are druggies in every subculture and every music scene, that in itself is no guarantee that drugs would open the listener to music is in anyway more weird or avant garde as a result of any drug-related association. There is little or nothing 'out-there' about reggae, 60s mod-scene, punk, disco or dance music, or any of the other music-scenes that have a wide-spread drug usage associated with them, (and I include "psych" in that crass generalisation). If anything the contrary is true - as the drug-usage increases the complexity of the music that the users seem to gravitate to decreases and its repetitiveness increases (and I include jamband and most improv music into that unresearched generalisation).
I would say that the substances open their minds to any kind of music, and it is entirely related to who they are around. If I wanted to show them reggae music or EDM, I could have. But because they were open to everything I was able to show them the weird.
I would agree that usually people get into more repetitive music but it's all dependant who they let themselves around.
Myself, I was the one guy that would only sit through ONE Grateful Dead DVD. I seriously could not do two in a row. Haha. I had to be like ENOUGH and force them to listen to Emperor. And I'll tell you, they loved the hell out of Prometheus.
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: March 05 2015 at 11:56
Smurph wrote:
Personally I don't know what Dean is talking about because I don't really go to big shows where there are tons of people. Most of the shows I see are around 15-40 people in attendance.
I have had my enjoyment of many concerts spoilt by inconsiderate fnckwits high on drugs. While its okay to sit and listen to Ozric Tentacles or Sigur Ros in a fug of hashish smoke, it's another to be concerned for your personal safety at a Hawkwind concert with idiots tripping on acid.
Smurph wrote:
And don't get me wrong. Most dumbass people that take drugs never grow to love good music. I'm just saying that it is much easier for people that are more closed-minded musically to accept the weird music when they aren't sober, and as long as they aren't personally in my way, who am I to care what they do? It's their life.
This may be true, but I very much doubt it, it seems a little specious to me. Certainly there are druggies in every subculture and every music scene, that in itself is no guarantee that drugs would open the listener to music is in anyway more weird or avant garde as a result of any drug-related association. There is little or nothing 'out-there' about reggae, 60s mod-scene, punk, disco or dance music, or any of the other music-scenes that have a wide-spread drug usage associated with them, (and I include "psych" in that crass generalisation). If anything the contrary is true - as the drug-usage increases the complexity of the music that the users seem to gravitate to decreases and its repetitiveness increases (and I include jamband and most improv music into that unresearched generalisation).
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
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Points: 3167
Posted: March 05 2015 at 10:53
As one who has dabbled in more things than I am willing to publicly admit and hung out with every type of druggie you could imagine, I will say that substances can allow less open-minded people to accept more outlandish and creative music.
Personally I have always loved weird music. I don't need substances to enjoy it. I don't need substances to make it. I can choose to or choose not to. Personally I don't know what Dean is talking about because I don't really go to big shows where there are tons of people. Most of the shows I see are around 15-40 people in attendance.
I have actually met more people that get surprised that an individual like me would do substances because of the way I carry myself. I don't buy into any of these stupid substance subcultures. I don't buy into any ideas about "mind expanding" bullsh*t. Idiots that take drugs don't get smarter. You've never really known purgatory until you've tripped with a bunch of people you have nothing in common with. A bunch of people that think everything is so damn special and they can't wrap their head aroud the simplest of concepts without blowing their minds.
Once I was with a group and they all got so amazed that a train went by on the tracks that we were walking past. They all believed we were "supposed" to be there, and I had explain that the substance they were on opens passageways in the brain that create mental connections between events. Those people usually can't see past their drug-addled minds and realize how things effect them.
I am 27 so I don't have any knowledge of the past, but I will say that I know plenty of people who would have never given most music a chance if they weren't on drugs. I've never been able to convince one sober person to enjoy Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, Cardiacs, or Sleepytime Gorilla Museum that wasn't already into weird music. Some people don't love music as much as we all love music.
"If you need drugs to appreciate music you don't like music that much anyway and the music is probably bad." Well yea, most people don't REALLY love music. Have you heard the music that most people listen to? "OMG MUSIC IS TOTALLY MY LIFE. LEIK WOW." Almost everyone says this. Especially this new self-important self-promoting internet generation that I'm a part of. Very few people actually live music as part of their life. They just want to put that public perception out because it is one of the easiest ways to create an aura of "deep thought" around themselves. And druggies are just as guilty, maybe even moreso of this bullsh*t.
Yes, we can blame them, or judge them, or whatever (though isn't that just a way of putting ourselves above others mentally? And that sh*t isn't really right either... even though I'm definitely guilty of that.) But in the end, I would much prefer that as many individuals as possible grow to love the strange and ever-changing world of avant-rock and RIO and weird prog influenced music. No matter how they acheive this.
And don't get me wrong. Most dumbass people that take drugs never grow to love good music. I'm just saying that it is much easier for people that are more closed-minded musically to accept the weird music when they aren't sober, and as long as they aren't personally in my way, who am I to care what they do? It's their life.
On the topic of drug-addled musicians I would agree that you can acheive more not on drugs. You can play better not on drugs, no matter what any idiot says. You can also make even weirder crazy music completely sober. I just think about my friend Lucas and his sober music. He is totally sober, Jehova's Witness, and he makes the MOST insane music of any of my friends.
But, if someone is able to put on a good show and it doesn't hinder their performance, who cares. They can do whatever they want.
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: March 05 2015 at 10:03
No one ever accused drugheads of being thoughtful, considerate or concerned for anyone other than themselves. Most of them could listen to a flushing toilet and think there having a mind blowing sonic experience. As a non-stoned audience member amid a sea of stoned, pissed and otherwise preoccupied gig attendees over the past 40 plus years I couldn't give a flying fart over what enlightened awareness and enhanced appreciation they did or did not get from the experience, on many occasions I just wished they'd fnck off and do it elsewhere, and preferable before the chose to vomit everywhere. I'll make the same disparaging judgement towards any musician who believes that my listening pleasure is in anyway improved by watching them fumble and stagger around on stage in some drug-addled stupor.
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Points: 15916
Posted: March 04 2015 at 23:26
SteveG wrote:
Thanks for the great responses. But what about the listening audience of the times. Did they need to be mind altered in order 'to get' the music?
I recall reading somewhere that bassist Neil Murray, left National Health as he got tired of playing to 'stoned' audiences that just 'sat there' wowing over the music, and actually thought that replacement John Greaves would better fit into the band's 'hippie' lifestyle - he ended up joining Whitesnake......
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 12701
Posted: March 04 2015 at 20:10
Man With Hat wrote:
If you need drugs to appreciate music: A) you don't really like music and B) that music is probably pretty bad.
Had you been born 30-35 years previously, you may have a different perspective. In fact, your A and B conclusions do not reflect an entirely different era.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Points: 166178
Posted: March 04 2015 at 20:03
If you need drugs to appreciate music: A) you don't really like music and B) that music is probably pretty bad.
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 8091
Posted: March 04 2015 at 14:27
TODDLER wrote:
I am a hundred percent for Frank Zappa's viewpoint on the drug culture and the danger inflicted upon anyone under the influence. As a composer...he understood the importance of keeping drugs away from his band and that drugs and music of complexity do not mix.
I am a hundred percent for Frank Zappa's viewpoint on the drug culture and the danger inflicted upon anyone under the influence. As a composer...he understood the importance of keeping drugs away from his band and that drugs and music of complexity do not mix.
I can listen to Ummagumma and never get the impression that the music derived from experimentation with drugs and particularly LSD. Roger Waters and Ron Geesin were sharing their love for American composers of 20th century Avant-Garde during this period in time. The music on Ummagumma revolves around the concept of focusing on each individual writer, but the album has a flow to it that is a form of experimental Avant-Garde and if you were unaware of each member producing music on their own, the album could be taken simply as an instrumental 20th century experimental Avant Garde style of music...minus a few of the songs. This album and several others released in the late 60's and early 70's have often been pigeon-holed as "drug related" music in the more offensive and insulting manner.
I believe that The Beatles were experimenting with LSD to really create something special. I believe they were sincere about it. Evidently they were smart and knew when to stop, unlike Peter Green and Syd Barrett. I cannot begin to tell you the darkness that will haunt you and hang over you like a black cloud or chase after you like a demon wanting your spirit. This drug can bring you to another world, both light and darkness, and if you don't have the strong will to realize the difference between reality and what is delusional...while you are under the influence of this drug, you could lose your sense of dividing what is important in life and your intelligent drive psychologically to control your own life will be drained. Your identity is stripped to a degree developed strongly from the drug and it is vital to make pre-arrangements of who precisely will be in your company while having the drug experience. That was Brian Jones' problem. He associated with too many people that didn't care about him and wouldn't back him up on any issue in life...and those are the people you want to steer clear of.
"1983, A Merman I Shall Turn To Be" by Jimi Hendrix was a piece that became a household item for LSD trips. I don't need drugs whatsoever to enjoy the timeless beauty of it. I believe it is extremely dangerous to mingle with cults while under the influence ..because as you all know about the Munich incident with Danny Kirwan and Peter Green. That's having your identity stripped in 2 different modes. The first being the drug and the second being the cult program. After Green and Kirwan left Munich..they were mentally ill. Danny Kirwan stuck it out with Fleetwood Mac, recording some very beautiful music...but on the inside he was damaged by the Munich incident and perhaps not even being aware of it in any sense. It's up to the individual and obviously some amazing music has been written while under the influence of LSD.
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
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Posted: March 04 2015 at 02:20
Tom Ozric wrote:
If anyone listened to Magma whilst tripping, I'd say they'd be ready for the men in white coats
One doesn't need dark music to go at the asylum: Syd Barrett's music was rather light (even if a bit twisted), but it didn't prevent him from having huge psychologic problems because of the drugs.
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What's the Dope? Drugs and Rock!
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Dean wrote:
