Why the criticism for Tony Banks? |
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Flight123
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2010 Location: Sohar, Oman Status: Offline Points: 1399 |
Posted: June 26 2015 at 03:06 | ||
Whoa! ELP called it a day in 1979, and ELPowell was hardly a 'pop' album - I would rather listen to that rather than Invisible Touch that came out the same year!
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lostrom
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 19 2014 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 122 |
Posted: June 28 2015 at 20:48 | ||
I wouldn't take such criticism seriously.
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lostrom
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awaken77
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 25 2008 Status: Offline Points: 374 |
Posted: July 02 2015 at 15:01 | ||
Tony Banks is integral part of Genesis as songwriter and musician - what complaints?
The only my complain is his weak vocal ability
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 10:49 | ||
I think Yes produced more of that "pop dreck" than anyone else in their latter albums. Banks and company trespassed with only Invisible Touch and its follow-up (and Follow You, Follow Me). |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 21:40 | ||
Who cares about his vocal ability... he is a keyboard player, not a singer. |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 21:43 | ||
Genesis did much more pop than only those two albums. Almost every album after And Then There Were Three was at least half pop, and most of the other half would be proggy pop. And even ATTWT has it's share of pop (come on even the previous 2 albums still with Hackett had a good share of pop... though very nice pop). |
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 08:01 | ||
Boy, did your argument go south with this last bit. |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13239 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 09:02 | ||
The south pole just had to be moved further south (we live on an egg now instead of a ball) to make that possible.
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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t d wombat
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 14 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 504 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 17:52 | ||
Given that Genesis released singles from pretty much (I think) every album from England on, then at least to some extent they saw themselves as a pop band.
I love them. I first heard them with England and it remains a favourite album, very fond of pretty much all they did up to Duke and some later but purely as a player I don't think Banks is one of the greatest keyboard players, although I do think he is very good and he fitted in perfectly with the band. I certainly would like to be as talented. That said, to my mind Genesis are not as Prog as many of their peers and purely from a Prog perspective they were simply not as adventurous as others such as KC, ELP, early Yes, GG or VDGG. Otoh, when it comes to what was once deemed Art Rock they were I reckon as good as it gets and Banks is absolutely central to that. |
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Andrew B
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:11 | ||
Why? You don't think those last albums with Hackett didn't have any pop in them? Of course I'm not saying they weren't prog albums anymore, but they did have some pop songs in them... or perhaps I've been so much into prog and metal lately that I find it difficult to judge what non proggers would find pop. However, since I usually only listen to what I have in my IPod, which are of course only my favourite songs from each album, I don't remember so well many of the songs, but from "A Trick of the Tail", at least the title track is pop, I would say Squonk too, and perhaps even "Entangled", though that one has that extended keyboard solo at the end. And as for "Wind and Wuthering", I always thought Afterglow was mostly poppy... even though it's a really wonderful song that I really love (well, perhaps if you put it in context with the previous two instrumentals it might be proggier, but by itself I'm not so sure). And "Your own Special Way"... I haven't heard that one for a good while, but I thought that one was mainly pop too. |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:19 | ||
I understand you think there was barely any pop on the Genesis albums before Invisible Touch? I mean, Abacab was mostly all pop (and in this case rather bland pop which I don't really care much about), except for Dodo, of course. I just got Duke too, and it mostly sounded pop to me, except for Duke's travells, and perhaps Man of Our Times, which was perhaps a bit too hard to be really pop (though I'm not sure I'd call it prog either). As for the Genesis self titled album, I haven't got that one yet, so I only know if for the songs that appear on live albums, from which I remember the ones I like "Mama", which I guess has elements of both pop an prog, and Home by the Sea, which for me is a wonderful prog track of the 80's (though the vocal parts are still mostly pop). And for "Ant then there were three", I also don't remember most except for what I have in my IPod, which are mostly the prog songs... so I guess that one is at least half heavy on prog, and half (wich I don't remember much) rather pop. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:25 | ||
I'd call Trick..and Wind & Wuthering pop-ified versions of Genesis-prog, but still prog enough more or less all the way through. Maybe Your Own Special Way could be a pop song but at 6 plus minutes a tad too long.
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Formentera Lady
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 20 2010 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1768 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:34 | ||
(I correct myself, he indeed sang on a couple of songs on the The Fugitive and Still and that was indeed really ) Edited by Formentera Lady - July 04 2015 at 23:43 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
Posted: July 05 2015 at 04:44 | ||
unfairly?? No!!! 1- Nothing that went on in Genesis happened without his consent.... so those saying Phil ruined Genesis in the 80's, it was with Tony's consent, period. 2- Did Tony act unfairly against Hackett, while in Genesis? I'd say yes, until it was too late . Hackett had dozens of tracks that Banks didn't want to hear about until W&W... That's why Hackett had done two solo albums (the first with Ruther & Collins,.... but without Banks That shows already a problem). Even in ToTT, Hackett's only got one track credit (Entangled).... So When Steve voiced his estranhement, Banks allowed him four tracks on W&W, but stopped a fifth by allowing Rutherford's insipid YOWS to double the length (did that awful tear-jerker need to be 6-mins+?? You can hear that the song goes uselessly a second time around for no valid reason)... Sooooo Steve left.... And Tony's all-too-late gesture went unthanked ... 3- And Banks never forgave Hackett... probably because Genesis was closer to folding after W&W (Collins also wanted to quit with his marriage failing >> he followed his wife to Vancouver >> hence that little heard Genesis track) than when The Gabe left after The Lamb... Indeed in 75, they were sure Genesis would go on.... but not quite so sure in 77... Big uncertainty....Aanswered by the opening track of ATTWT (even that titkle shows the trauma of the band at the time) Read the lyrics of Down & Out, and in between the lines, you'll read Bank's reproaches to Hackett and the "new start" the band had to take. And to keep ,Phil in the band, Banks probably had to make him a senior partner in Genesis, equal to him & Ruther. In doing so, that probably meant that he allowed Phil's undeniable pop touch take an equal shot (more of this in point 5) 4- And Banks never forgave Hackett, and if Steve's place is never equal in the recent compilations & boxsets, no doubt it's Banks' doing. 5- In terms of big scummercial success , Banks is the only that didn't get a major success outside Genesis... The Gabe, Collins and Ruther (via the Mechanics) all went to #1 .... But even Hackett did via that TV show generic music... and also via the atrocious GTR album (>> the 80's really stank, uh?)... but he, Tony, never did!!! Strangely enough, despite leaving the band, Hackett goes too far (IMHO) in milking Genesis' aura. He should get over it, at least as much as Banks should. IMHO, of course Edited by Sean Trane - July 05 2015 at 05:35 |
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Flight123
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2010 Location: Sohar, Oman Status: Offline Points: 1399 |
Posted: July 05 2015 at 05:08 | ||
I think you are right about Hackett milking his Genesis past - I recall him being a little bit miffed at having only a walk-on part for the Six of the Best concert in 1982 (resulting in 'Lost Time in Milton Keynes') and I am sure this is an irritant to Banks as well. Little is said about Ray Wilson, whose chagrin at his treatment by the band is almost equal to that of Hackett. Wilson has continued to milk the Genesis aura as well, despite his time with the band being much more limited to that of Hackett. However, he did credit Banks with a personal visit to explain why his services were no longer required.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: July 05 2015 at 07:27 | ||
I would say that Banks' masterful keyboard arrangements are why I love Genesis so much. Sure, all members impress, but Tony has a 'Midas Touch' when it comes to keyboards. I can, practically, not fault Banks' work, though I don't like everything the others have done.
But yes, he does come across a bit snooty. |
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 13:44 | ||
No self-titled Genesis yet. Well, hurry up, already. It's only been out 32 years. |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 21:19 | ||
Yes, there is an album called "Genesis" released in 1983. |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: July 06 2015 at 21:20 | ||
Thanks, I think you explained better what I was trying to say. |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
Posted: July 07 2015 at 03:43 | ||
yeah, one could say that YOSW (or even TotT - the track) are fairly pop, but Genesis always had a pop twist (Counting Out Time, for ex) |
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