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HackettFan
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Topic: What characteristic of Prog do you most value? Posted: June 25 2015 at 12:24 |
There are a number of commonly held characteristics of Progressive Rock. I attempted to list them below as best and completely as I could, although I certainly could have missed something:
A commitment to: •Innovation in timbre •Innovation in structure/composition/juxtaposition of material in general •Freedom from composition/free-form/improvisation •Innovation in time, rhythm, meter, polyrhythms... •Exceptional musicianship, well-demonstrated capability with instruments •Incorporation of varied styles and genres •Innovative lyrics, subject matters, themes •...Other
Which do you find to be the most highly valued, or what do you yourself most highly value? Why? No, you don't have to associate yourself with just one. I don't. But maybe there is one (or two) that you rank above the others. What might it be? Please understand that this thread is NOT intended as another tired discussion on the definition of Prog. The question is which one of its commonly accepted properties particularly stands out for you?
I biased the list with my highest ranked commitment on top. I am most delighted and inspired by the use of interesting timbres. This might be through employing unusual instruments or non-instruments, creating unusual sounds from well-known instruments, sound synthesis, the use of found sound samples, and so on. I always gravitated to things like Genesis’ The Waiting Room with all its breaking glass and such, Jamie Muir’s use of anything and everything on Lark’s Tongues, Zappa’s early forays into musique concrete, and some of the sounds Henry Kaiser would get from guitar torture on Moose and Salmon and on his collaborations with Fred Frith. Synthesizers were always cool to me, and when they began to have guitar synthesizers, cooler still. I still have a great deal of affection for Adrian Belew’s album, Desire Caught By the Tail, where he seemed to do every odd thing he could think of with a guitar synthesizer. For myself, I am constantly buying and messing around with effect pedals and guitar synthesizers. I receive extra delight when I run across a particular sound that comes not from a single effect but from some combination of effects, and I’ve always considered this sort of resourceful fiddling to be an essential of the creative process.
How about you?
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SteveG
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 12:32 |
^Great question. For me, it's simply any artist or band that possesses qualities above the average rock band, which can encompass any (or more) of the attributes that you have listed.
Edited by SteveG - June 25 2015 at 12:33
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GKR
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 13:20 |
Of course I love the whole package. But I'll stick with this three:
•Innovation in structure/composition/juxtaposition of material in general •Incorporation of varied styles and genres •Innovative lyrics, subject matters, themes
Personally, I like the works that goes beyond music. That kinda of thing that, when you're reading a book you go "aaahh, thats the thing about that music from Gentle Giant!". And when you come back to the music, you find new stuff that you didnt notice in the first place. That goes on music structure, lyrics and design of covers.
The albums I have most sense this feeling are: "A Passion Play", "Octopus", "Arbeit Macht Frei", everything from Henry Cow and some things from Genesis.
Edited by GKR - June 25 2015 at 13:21
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kenethlevine
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 13:40 |
It's of course a complex question. To me prog is as much about attitude as anything else. I like its tendency to move beyond the superficial or ordinary musically or lyrically. I also like the variation, the contrast between lightness and darkness, joy and pain. Melody is also usually important to me, but what I find neat about that is that people all have different ideas on what is a good melody and what isn't
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Smurph
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 13:46 |
Creativity over record sales.
Creativity over looking cool.
Creativity over getting laid.
Creativity over everything.
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emigre80
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 14:15 |
For me it's the complexity of the music, aligned with the exceptional musicianship. It's great to be challenged, perplexed and occasionally frustrated, but never bored. Also I'm a big fan of the flaky lyrics. I really do enjoy assessing points to nowhere, leading every single one, and knowing what I like in your wardrobe.
Edited by emigre80 - June 25 2015 at 14:16
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aglasshouse
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 14:19 |
kenethlevine wrote:
It's of course a complex question. To me prog is as much about attitude as anything else. I like its tendency to move beyond the superficial or ordinary musically or lyrically. I also like the variation, the contrast between lightness and darkness, joy and pain. Melody is also usually important to me, but what I find neat about that is that people all have different ideas on what is a good melody and what isn't |
This pretty much sums up my feelings as well.
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Rednight
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 14:28 |
A complex question, indeed. From your list, "Incorporation of varied styles and genres." Genesis' 'Lamb' reflects that aspect quite nicely.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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twseel
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 15:10 |
Mostly these:
HackettFan wrote:
•Innovation in structure/composition/juxtaposition of material in general
•Freedom from composition/free-form/improvisation |
also true:
emigre80 wrote:
It's great to be challenged, perplexed and occasionally frustrated, but never bored. |
Edited by twseel - June 25 2015 at 15:10
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*frinspar*
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 15:24 |
Fearless experimentation. The results may not always be absolutely pleasing from a favorite band when they branch out and explore a different approach to making music, but it means they haven't gotten complacent, playing the same thing over and again. To be frank, and maybe expose myself as a bimbo , lyrics, themes and grand purposes have never had much appeal for me. The experience of the group dynamic to create sounds that make my brain tingle and my heart feel things is greater than understanding why they did it.
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HackettFan
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 15:57 |
Thanks for all the great responses so far. I would just like to ask Smurph and Frinspar if there's any particular sort of "creativity" or any particular sort of "experimentation" that you frequently return to or actively keep an eye out for?
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HackettFan
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 16:10 |
Rednight wrote:
A complex question, indeed. From your list, "Incorporation of varied styles and genres." Genesis' 'Lamb' reflects that aspect quite nicely. |
I've always been really excited by the sounds Steve Hackett gets out of his guitar, whether through effects or through rubbing his fore-arm across the strings. It's a big part of my interest in timbre, but I'm willing to bet that, if Hackett himself were responding to this thread, he might also single out the "Incorporation of varied styles and genres", judging by what I've gleaned over the years from his various interviews.
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Svetonio
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 16:35 |
For me, prog rock is way more fun than all other genres.
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HackettFan
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 16:41 |
Svetonio wrote:
For me, prog rock is way more fun than all other genres. |
What makes it the most fun for you?
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rogerthat
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 22:25 |
I like subversion in art in general but preferably within a structure. It so happens that prog has plenty of artists that fit these 'requirements'.
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brainstormer
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 22:38 |
Great question and worded very skillfully.
Classical has sort of ruined prog for me. There is no turning back, after listening to someone like William Schuman or Roy Harris, I keep wanting prog to "get there" but after listening to the classical greats, it doesn't seem able to. It doesn't mean that I don't indulge anymore in prog, it just means that all those things aren't answered enough by prog. I feel ok with that because I feel that "proggers" are kind of stuck in a high school type of mentality that only classical music can free oneself from.
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Barbu
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 00:49 |
Freedom.
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Formentera Lady
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 07:40 |
The most important thing for me is the composition. That it has a scored approach, with intro/outro/middle parts/climax/finale or something similar and how the parts fit together.
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*frinspar*
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 10:00 |
HackettFan wrote:
Thanks for all the great responses so far. I would just like to ask Smurph and Frinspar if there's any particular sort of "creativity" or any particular sort of "experimentation" that you frequently return to or actively keep an eye out for? |
Not really. Not in any major conscious way. Genesis, mostly due to lineup subtractions, presented something a bit different with each album and I appreciate them all. Dream Theater, starting with Scenes 2, started to bore me, because they sounded exactly the same from album to album at that point and beyond. Some things that have excited me through the years are groups like Naked City and other John Zorn projects, Secret Chiefs 3, Estradasphere, to name a few.
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PrognosticMind
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 10:04 |
Smurph wrote:
Creativity over record sales.
Creativity over looking cool.
Creativity over getting laid.
Creativity over everything. |
This!
Also, I love when I feel like I'm listening to a surrealism painting, or something super abstract.
I'm one of those proggies who abides by the axiom "the more crazy-creative, the better!".
Trout Mask Replica and Bitches Brew immediately come to mind. I like feeling like I'm listening to a Chirico or Pollock painting. Prog is the only genre that really exemplifies this quality for me.
Edited by PrognosticMind - June 26 2015 at 10:05
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