Why so few American bands in 70's prog? |
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verslibre
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I consider fusion a progressive form of music, and we had the best of the best over here. Also, I can't believe nobody's brought up Todd Rundgren's Utopia. The first album, and Another Live, scream "Prog!"
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 15 2007 Location: Vitória, Brasil Status: Offline Points: 7971 |
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Well, he was an influence to the Beatles. The MoI album Freak Out! was a allegedly a major influence to the Beatles' Sargent Pepper's and one of the biggest reason for their musical u-turn towards psychedelia since 66, as were some of the subsequent MoI albums.
AFAIK, none of these bands were of any importance to the progressive scene, except Kansas.
That's absolutely possible. The same thing happened here in Brazil: the album O A e o Z by Os Mutantes was shelved for over 20 years because they didn't believe it was any marketable; but the album had influences by various important bands so maybe their label was just uninformed/ill informed about the genre? I really don't know. Something similar happened to Bacamarte: Depois do Fim was shelved for 5 years because the labels thought it couldn't be marketed. Ironically, these are two of the best prog albums by Brazilian bands and are arguably among some of the best in the world. Edited by CCVP - June 26 2015 at 09:40 |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I'm sure I read a Kansas interview once where they said that record companies in the US were completely opposed to prog rock, with a few notable exceptions, because they didn't think US bands would be able to compete with the European prog bands - British bands in particular - and that they should just stick to hard rock.
Rush also had opposition from the record company when they started to move away from rock 'n' roll on COS. Whereas British labels were embracing a lot of prog, it seems that US labels didn't want to promote anything that was not radio friendly. Just a theory. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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dr prog
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American music is too rock n roll and hard rock influenced. Per population they were and are one of the weakest in regards to quality bands
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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twosteves
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Agree--Europe in general has more respect and diverse taste for all kinds of music than America. In the Proggish world--America did give us some great jazz fusion---which I always appreciated more than any american prog.
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ClemofNazareth
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Pretty sure what happened was that America created the blues, jazz, R&B, bluegrass, country and psych, and while we were resting on the seventh day the Brits came up with prog.
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rogerthat
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As already mentioned, very influential avant bands/artists are from America. America also had a strong jazz rock scene in the 70s. It is symph prog that was weak in America. Perhaps the particular blend of classical influences with a more pastoral, folky kind of rock/pop could not have happened in America and what bands did pick up the thread from the European scene were condemned to be me-toos at best. Prog metal embraced the epic format and the most influential prog metal band is American.
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Toaster Mantis
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I think it's more or less what Rando said above.... because Europe have classical while the US have jazz as the respective culture's home-grown art music tradition, resulting in different cultural frames of reference being at work in used as starting points for trying to expand rock music's horizons.
Notice that the American high-minded rock musicians of that generation, not just Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart but also Mahavishnu Orchestra and Steely Dan etc, usually lean less on classical and more on jazz. Zappa and Beefheart's classical influences also come from newer generations of classical (Stravinsky, Varese etc) than the British prog rock movement's while we're at it. Edited by Toaster Mantis - June 26 2015 at 04:53 |
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HackettFan
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Also, in England the Canterbury groups were heavily jazz oriented. Jethro Tull was heavily blues oriented. Steve Hackett was classically oriented but also blues oriented. Peter Gabriel brought elements of soul music to Genesis, and so on. So I'm still unclear about what the differences were.
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The.Crimson.King
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Along with... Netherworld Lift Pentwater Ambrosia (1st album) Shadowfax (1st album) It's not that there weren't US prog bands, just not many that got any radio attention or became known outside their local area
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dr wu23
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That is an interesting question; .....there were others besides Kansas, Styx, Starcastle, ......
Ethos Cathedral Happy The Man Yezda Urfa Babylon Easter Island ..but none ever became very popular except for Kansas and Styx. There were probably more Canadian prog bands . |
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CCVP
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The US didn't have many bands, but had arguably the most influential artist of the progressive movement as a whole: Frank Zappa.
He was an influence to the inception of progressive rock during the earliest stages of the Mothers and he always pushed boundaries forward during the 4 decades he released material during his life. it can be argues that his impact was mostly felt on the underground circles, but that's not right either. Even though he wasn't "successful" regarding record sales, his music was, at that time, of great importance for the musicians and composers of progressive bands; his impact was absolutely universal, although not quite as apparent as, say, Pink Floyd or Yes. |
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PrognosticMind
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Was coming in here loaded with Beefheart and Zappa love. I wouldn't consider The Grateful Dead prog at all.
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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Rando
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Maybe its simply American music traditions vs European tradition. Yet what I find interesting is at the same time here in the US we had the more "eclectic-avant-garde-experimentalists" like Zappa, Miles Davis, Beefheart, Velvet Underground, or even The Residents. Maybe its because Classical music here in the US (generally speaking) has always had a bad rap as this elitist, "symphony hall night with seasoned tickets" image. US bands are too deep-rooted in Blues, R & B, Jazz, and even Gospel. It's in our musical blood. Prog involved using European classical influences, with a more compositional approach with set arrangements, utilizing long extended cadenza-like solos. We all know that. But I still find that no different from say, an extended blues jam, or an improvised Jazz section, or variations on a theme. Like somebody already said; maybe the the soil here wasn't tilled or fertile enough at the time... |
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HackettFan
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Don't overlook Captain Beefhart too. I think one might expect more because of Zappa's influence, given all the musicians he's had going through his band. A lot of them, though, such as George Duke or Jean Luc Ponty (a little later) were doing stuff that was more standard jazz in their solo work than the Prog/Fusion they took part in with Zappa. A lot of British and German psychedelic music was not easily distinguishable from Prog. In the US, the Grateful Dead were mainly extended blues and didn't get proggy until Terrapin Station. None of these are real answers, just ways of deepening the mystery.
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Svetonio
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Due to an unique atmosphere in that part of England where Symphonic rock was born, methinks (I'v been there as a tourist). It was not possible to Symphonic rock occurs elsewhere, it could be only exported from England. And as an imported genre in America, Symphonic rock didn't find a suitable soil for growth.
Edited by Svetonio - June 25 2015 at 16:29 |
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Big Kid Josie
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I'm curious why the classic period of prog was an almost European-only phenomenon. One could argue that the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds influenced the Beatles on Pepper, which opened up the door for all other forms of musical experimentation, including prog. But the Beach Boys weren't prog, to me. Frank Zappa was. I think the first couple of albums by Kansas and Styx were prog, although they fell off into area rock/pop pretty quickly. You could argue that Chicago started out very progressive. Starcastle was very derivative of Yes, to me. But, after that, I can't think of too many American bands.
Is it the fact that a lot of symphonic prog was based on European classical composers rather than rhythm-and-blues and so it just passed the US bands by, initially? Looking at music history, I see the rhythm-and-blues/folk musicians in the US influencing the Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds, etc., which led to the 60's musical explosion. Then, another musical explosion (this one being prog rock/art-rock/whatever you want to call it), based on the European composers and traditions, often uniting orchestras with the bands, by groups like the Moodies, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, the Nice, Yes, KC, the usual suspects. There were some other great bands from Italy, Sweden, etc., of course. Why do you think so few US bands jumped on the prog bandwagon? |
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