Has prog lost its way? |
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Altairius
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 14 2014 Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Topic: Has prog lost its way? Posted: August 02 2015 at 21:26 |
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I don't find Glass Hammer to be a copycat band. They have their own take on symphonic prog, and more importantly, the music is excellent. Starcastle is somewhat of a Yes copycat, but the soundworld of Yes (and other classic bands) could be genre in itself, and they simply play within that style. I have no problem with it. Their first album is actually quite good.
The problem with modern prog is that most of the bands are uninspired. The music lacks the dynamic quality and harmonic richness that the best prog has. Progressive metal in itself is ok, but too much of it is just tedious riff-salad. There are plenty of good, and some great modern bands though. Prog is easily doing better than all other music right now, as little as that says.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: August 01 2015 at 12:28 | ||||
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: July 30 2015 at 10:50 | ||||
Nah. The Who were kicked out that "roll" from rock'n'roll. With My Generation the song, The Who were created that frame for 'Rock' as a subgenre of rock music in general (or "rock & roll" as it was / is very often used term also for rock in general). It's just so happened, 'cause Pete Townshend's original intention was to make My Generation as a slow blues song. Anyway, Dylan's poetry that was set in folk music had nothing to do with My Generation nor with My Generation lyrics writen by Roger Daltrey who was at that time a big fan of Elvis Presley. Both from 1965, but that difference is drastic... And that English Symphonic rock was actually developed from Rock, not from Folk rock. Edited by Svetonio - July 30 2015 at 13:12 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: July 30 2015 at 09:10 | ||||
Dylan was a progressive folk artist imo, but sure it was his sharp and witty tongue that broke down most fences.
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
Posted: July 30 2015 at 09:06 | ||||
Yep. Dylan's music is not progressive in any way, but his lyrics are. Sun Ra was a progressive musician. Neither of the two is/was a prog artist. (Yet, Dylan opened a door for rock music, namely that to sophisticated lyrics, and therefore contributed to the emergence of prog in the late 1960s.) |
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: July 30 2015 at 01:35 | ||||
Actually, Mr Dylan was (as description only) a progressive poet at his heydays (i.e. he wrote a progressive poetry that was set in non-progressive music) but he never was progressive musician. You can say for e.g. Sun Ra that "progressive but not progressive rock", but not for Bob Dylan.
Edited by Svetonio - July 30 2015 at 02:07 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: July 29 2015 at 16:27 | ||||
Not really. Prog is a genre that includes a lot of bands who're doing the same stuff as the biggies did back in the 70s. That's not really progressive. In fact, most of the new stuff we add to the database is anything but progressive....but it's still called prog. Progressive music is to be found everywhere. Wu-Tang Clan and Bob Dylan were progressive - though not progressive rock. Progressive in relation to music means to progress or indeed move beyond what's already there. |
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The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
- Douglas Adams |
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terramystic
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 776 |
Posted: July 29 2015 at 16:21 | ||||
It's the same like et cetera = etc.
Yes, classical music hit the wall. Also avant-garde and jazz. Prog is also very much developed. But this is certainly not the end of new possibilities in music. There can always be some interesting fusions and also every musician has some personal style. Edited by terramystic - July 29 2015 at 16:22 |
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
Posted: July 28 2015 at 10:24 | ||||
Yes, there is some truth in that. Many prog metal musicians make suboptimal use of their skills, and over-adorn the pieces without giving them more atmosphere and emotional depth. Dream Theater, for instance, were really excellent with Scenes From A Memory and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, but the later albums do not hold up with these masterpieces despite being technically at least as virtuous. Especially Jordan Rudess's pseudo-guitar-playing on the continuum sometimes goes on my nerves. Kevin Moore was IMHO the better keyboard player because he was more restrained and less show-offy. |
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Necrotica
Special Collaborator Honorary Colaborator Joined: July 28 2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3204 |
Posted: July 28 2015 at 07:18 | ||||
I don't necessarily think progressive rock has lost its way, but one of my biggest problems - especially in the realm of progressive metal - is an increase in unnecessary instrumental noodling instead of putting the virtuosity to better use. Bands like Genesis and Yes have been well known for being extremely proficient instrumentalists, but their talents were utilized to craft unique atmospheres and musical "worlds" for the listener to get pulled into. For instance, with Close to the Edge, I always got a new age vibe from the more spiritual aspects of the music and lyricism... especially with Jon Anderson's harmonies and the expansive keyboard sounds.
I think this is what I'm getting at: 70s progressive rock always had a sense of atmosphere and storytelling to give emotional depth to the complex compositions, whereas a lot of current progressive rock and especially progressive metal bands are focusing a bit too much on pure technicality in my opinion. It seems to be more about how many polyrhythms you can put in a song or how many notes you can shred out in a minute... just empty and meaningless virtuosity. Obviously I don't want to make this a generalization about ALL progressive rock of today, as plenty of bands are still carrying the torch for their musical ancestors; however, playing countless notes without passion or meaning just seems wasteful to me.
Edited by Necrotica - July 28 2015 at 07:19 |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6763 |
Posted: July 27 2015 at 23:25 | ||||
Here, have some! |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: July 27 2015 at 20:16 | ||||
Once we crown Gabriel as the owner of one of the best possible voices, that itself is a difficult starting point and no wonder you have singers trying to imitate him when that's the last thing they should do. Of course I understand I am looking at the word in a very specific sense as a singer; when people usually throw around the word 'voice' they mean everything, including expression or technique which don't have much to do with the voice the singer has. Gabriel was a very expressive singer with a deep but nasal voice. Jon Anderson is the other end of the spectrum, beautiful voice devoid of expression. There is some merit in the view that vocals have declined but it has nothing to do with their voices or the style of singing. Even David Byron was a metal singer and imo less impressive than contemporaries Gillan, Dio and Halford. It has a lot to do with the preference for a kind of uniform diction which could originate from America, from Britain or from Antartica for all I care. Also the receding influence of British folk on prog vocalists. With all that said, prog is primarily an instrument dominated genre so surely the quality of the vocals is only a secondary issue and we aren't really belling the cat?
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Son.of.Tiresias
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 23 2014 Location: Northern Hemisp Status: Offline Points: 441 |
Posted: July 27 2015 at 14:47 | ||||
Canīt agree more. One of the very few intelligent and NEUTRAL comments about so far. Especially lead singers. IMO number one is: the lead singer must be very top, the best possible voice, like Jimi Hendrix, David Byron, Gary Brooker, Peter Gabriel, Greg Lake, Steve Walsh, Brad Delp, Francesco di Giacomo, Michele Bavaro... and Jon Anderson (grin). Heh, so far you seem to be the only one (besides me) hear who really understands Andersonīs greatness. Hmm, really true die-hard fans of him will say a few words to defend him... sooner or later. So funny. Great. Thanks
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Son.of.Tiresias
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 23 2014 Location: Northern Hemisp Status: Offline Points: 441 |
Posted: July 27 2015 at 12:53 | ||||
Heh-heh ! You have a very weird sense of "humour". I always have won mockers and survived attacks from weird dudes and always will. Another "expert" hear raving about lesser talented Trevor Horn. So funny. I even didnīt belittle him, actually he did the very best he could because he adored Jonīs voice and his work with Yes. Drama is OK but just pop music musically quite booring. So funny. Fortunately music and arts in general are not sport. You ainīt nothing but another duke pretending to be a "true" prog fan and a very important even intelligent person hear on PA. Your used quite violet language against me even itīs meant to be a metaphor I guess. You tried to attack me violently although I never said you anything. I see it so because I come from a very different culture, proud culture. You are just another dude trying to be a schoolteaser. Donīt try to step on my shoes. You will lose because Iīm proud. Like my hero Jon Anderson, man of peace and love. You just revealed your true nature Ah, or you just envy Jon Andersonīs beautiful looks and gorgeous hair. |
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terramystic
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 776 |
Posted: July 27 2015 at 08:27 | ||||
Beautiful! I discovered this multi talented artist last week because of the reviews here on PA. |
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Green Shield Stamp
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 17 2009 Location: Telford, UK Status: Offline Points: 933 |
Posted: July 25 2015 at 19:52 | ||||
Prog (a retrospective term that wasn't used in the era that we associate with classic prog bands) was a central musical force that was inextricably connected to a social, historical and cultural context, namely early to mid 1970s Britain. In those pre-punk days Prog was (in many ways) the mainstream. Floyd, Genesis and Yes sold huge quantities of albums and played sell-out concerts. They were the rock aristocracy of the day. However, times move on, as do musical tastes. Prog nowadays is a misnomer. There is nothing progressive about trying to sound like bands whose heyday was over 40 years ago. It's time to ditch the label as it has become a cul-de-sac that creates limitations which stifle innovation. Such is true of all forms of labelling and categorisation.
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Haiku
Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:21 | ||||
OK, make it the late 70s then. And certainly, there has been a lot of good and even great prog after that - but I see little that has the visionary power of the classic Yes, and the great masterpieces of the classic era have few equals in modern prog. Instead, we see albums about such negative subjects as serial killers (IQ The Road of Bones) or people falling dead in their apartments without their neighbours noticing (Steven Wilson Hand.Cannot.Erase, which is typical of much of current prog that is depressing like winter fog). Granted, it is easier these days to come up with pessimistic subject matters than with optimistic ones (but was the world really so much better in the 70s when many prog bands managed to come up with edifying visionary albums?), but I still think that the current crisis can be overcome and a better world be built, if we all pull together. This is the same problem as with science fiction, where optimistic stories have recently been few and far between. Most modern SF stories are about civilization collapsing, either from current problems such as climate change or terrorism gettng out of hand, or (more often) from threats that have nothing even to do with current problems, such as alien invasions, asteroid strikes or the currently so fashionable zombie plagues. But I am digressing. |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20506 |
Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:46 | ||||
Yes. No. Maybe. Whatever.
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Disparate Times
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 12 2015 Location: Rust belt Status: Offline Points: 261 |
Posted: July 25 2015 at 07:30 | ||||
Obviously I'm not suggesting the Ramones nor nickelback should be included in the archives. I just think it's absurd to say that prog has no way. Without a definition is it even a thing? I understand that the classics didn't think of themselves as being prog, but in retrospect what they did ultimately created what we now know to be prog. I think a lot of modern bands now know that they are prog bands, and this is causing them to follow the path that has been created, that isn't progression. I think that following a leader is something that wasn't included in classic prog but sadly has been adopted in order to appease a specific audience. Some accept this by concluding it's still better than everything else out there. This idea that we have experienced all the experimentation that music has to offer is crazy too. Music is endless, you may not like where it has gone or even where it is going but that doesn't mean it's dead. I think what we're seeing is a lack of visionaries in music today. I don't dislike all new music and I'm certainly not ready to accept music today can't compare to the classics, I just haven't heard it yet. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64378 |
Posted: July 24 2015 at 20:25 | ||||
^ Good observation. True Glam?
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