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Topic Closed2nd Round Moderns: Spirit of Eden v. Op. Mindcrime

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2nd Round Moderns: Spirit of Eden v. Op. Mindcrime
    Posted: August 07 2015 at 17:53
Though I like Mindcrime a lot, Spirit of Eden is something else!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2015 at 04:58
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

Originally posted by Komandant Shamal Komandant Shamal wrote:


I voted for "Spirit of Eden" ClapClapClapClapClap but how 'classics' that were released 27 years ago could be 'moderns' and therefore in the battle of modern albums?
isnt that a nonsense to call "moderns" the albums from 80s, even if we know that these polls are just for fun and nothing but fun?
edit: and wouldnt be a too big nonsense even for these for-fun-only polls if in the modern albums grand finale you get eg some album from 80s and another thats released in 00s?


Thinking that myself. Mickey .... was there any serious attempt at setting a cut off point for Modern v Classic or was the final decision simply a refusal to be dictated too by the outdated rules, regulations and traditions of the English language ?  LOL 

Anywho .... some albums I simply cannot make all the way through so forgive me if I am wrong but from what I hear of Queensryche they appear to be nowt but yet another Deep Purple wannabe.

Otoh, I do like Talk Talk though I've always lumped them in what I'd think of as Prog Lite with such outfits as Simple Minds, Ultravox, Japan and the like. I confess though that by the time Eden was released I wasn't listening to them at all. Nice album.  Wish I'd been aware of it back in the day.


I posted this way back in the tournament threads.

The whole matter and actual year of the dividing date was something we heavily discussed and debated. The first notion was to use Neo as that dividing point.. from the classic where they were aping Genesis to later when they started aping PT LOLWink

it worked until we saw that ..ahem.. prog is not all symphonic and aping and mimicking the classics.

Post-Rock and prog metal. Both had their beginning in our haphazardly designated cut off which so we shifted the cut date into the 80's for the modern to take into account the beginning of prog metal and Post-Rock. All agreed they would be horribly out of place in the 'classic' prog section.
Using Progressive Metal, Post Rock or Neo Prog as that dividing date is WRONG. LOL  Neo Prog is a subgenre [style] of Symphonic Prog, Progressive Metal is long-tailed in 70s melodic Hard Rock [check Rainbow's "Stargazer"] and 70s Symphonic Prog a la Yes. Post Rock was beginning to run in 90s as an obscure subgenre with its artistic origins in Post-Punk and therefore had nothing to do with Prog at all [in fact Post Rock is not even now recognized by so many music sites and fans as prog as it is in PA]. But if you insist that dividing point must be in pre-digital era, then that cut point where modern prog was beginning to run could be ONLY Rock In Opposition movement in late 70s.
 
edit: Re "Spirit of Eden", i know that many fans are thinking that the "Spirit of Eden" is a Post Rock album. It's also wrong. "Spirit of Eden" is awesome 80sArt Rock album thats pretty ambiental as in 80s was some degree of enthusiasm for 70s Ambient music and when Brian Eno's "Another Green World" was re-discovered as well.


Edited by Komandant Shamal - August 07 2015 at 13:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2015 at 20:43
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and on that note.. we are already into the 3rd age... in 10 years when we revisit these contests. Be prepared for 3 brackets. Classic prog, modern prog, and the post prog, the age of progressive music.

the dividing line.. 2011 when prog flatlined.  The cancellation of Nearfest when prog and progressive audiences fractured. Prog bands went after prog fans.. progressive bands went after music fans.
That could explain why I don't like a lot of traditionally prog albums after 2010. Almost all of the ones I like are metal with the occasional avant album. 



I've definitely seen a shift in my particular tastes in the last 4 or 5 years ..  just noted in the Ske-Paatos poll.  I do lean away from more traditional prog to more progressive.. adventurous. Perhaps adopted by prog rock fan.. and sites like this....but not really prog rock.


Edited by micky - August 06 2015 at 20:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2015 at 20:38
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and on that note.. we are already into the 3rd age... in 10 years when we revisit these contests. Be prepared for 3 brackets. Classic prog, modern prog, and the post prog, the age of progressive music.

the dividing line.. 2011 when prog flatlined.  The cancellation of Nearfest when prog and progressive audiences fractured. Prog bands went after prog fans.. progressive bands went after music fans.
That could explain why I don't like a lot of traditionally prog albums after 2010. Almost all of the ones I like are metal with the occasional avant album. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2015 at 19:20
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and on that note.. we are already into the 3rd age... in 10 years when we revisit these contests. Be prepared for 3 brackets. Classic prog, modern prog, and the post prog, the age of progressive music.

the dividing line.. 2011 when prog flatlined.  The cancellation of Nearfest when prog and progressive audiences fractured. Prog bands went after prog fans.. progressive bands went after music fans.


Ten Years ? Wow ... what do we all do in the meantime ?

Still and all by then it will be hopefully a better more mature world where Secret Chiefs 3 do not lose out to IQ. Oh callow youth.

Oh lord I can see it now .... umpteen discussions as too whether or not the sons and daughters of Gabriel et al should get together for a Sprogs of Genesis Tour. Shocked


easy...  do what we've done for the last 10 years... expand your horizons and explore the current music out there  and prepare for the next batch of polls. Who knows.. when some jealous husband puts a bullet through my filthy hide.. or my beloved wife cuts my heart out..  you just might have to step into the McShoes and run the next one LOL

As far as the forum... ahhh... don't worry.  I'm sure the site is much more womanly than we'd guess. This place used to be a madhouse.. where the admins used to have to put sawdust down on the floor to soak up the blood..  then it became a limp wristed hang-out for those wanting a peaceful sojourn from the rigors of real life... haha..yahn... pussies.  Nothing eased the stresses of real life than beating DT fans over the heads with tire irons....

Wait a year or two and the mood and demeanor here will change again.. my reappearance is just the first sign of the impending forumpocalyse.  When you see Tony R come back.. then hide the women and children...  it will be high noon 24/7 on main street in the hardbitten frontier settlement known as Prog Archives. Yeah the forum is dull.. the polls a nice vacation from the tedium..  but it won't last.


In ten years ?  McZimmerFrame more like it.

Damn it though, how I wish I'd been witness to the carnage.

Not sure I'd ever do much to reduce the tedium. Right now I'm listening to Mogwai. Me, I like it, but then when I'm feeling really boppy I play some Brian Eno.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2015 at 18:15
Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and on that note.. we are already into the 3rd age... in 10 years when we revisit these contests. Be prepared for 3 brackets. Classic prog, modern prog, and the post prog, the age of progressive music.

the dividing line.. 2011 when prog flatlined.  The cancellation of Nearfest when prog and progressive audiences fractured. Prog bands went after prog fans.. progressive bands went after music fans.


Ten Years ? Wow ... what do we all do in the meantime ?

Still and all by then it will be hopefully a better more mature world where Secret Chiefs 3 do not lose out to IQ. Oh callow youth.

Oh lord I can see it now .... umpteen discussions as too whether or not the sons and daughters of Gabriel et al should get together for a Sprogs of Genesis Tour. Shocked


easy...  do what we've done for the last 10 years... expand your horizons and explore the current music out there  and prepare for the next batch of polls. Who knows.. when some jealous husband puts a bullet through my filthy hide.. or my beloved wife cuts my heart out..  you just might have to step into the McShoes and run the next one LOL

As far as the forum... ahhh... don't worry.  I'm sure the site is much more womanly than we'd guess. This place used to be a madhouse.. where the admins used to have to put sawdust down on the floor to soak up the blood..  then it became a limp wristed hang-out for those wanting a peaceful sojourn from the rigors of real life... haha..yahn... pussies.  Nothing eased the stresses of real life than beating DT fans over the heads with tire irons....

Wait a year or two and the mood and demeanor here will change again.. my reappearance is just the first sign of the impending forumpocalyse.  When you see Tony R come back.. then hide the women and children...  it will be high noon 24/7 on main street in the hardbitten frontier settlement known as Prog Archives. Yeah the forum is dull.. the polls a nice vacation from the tedium..  but it won't last.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 19:15

Queensr˙che, Operation: Mindcrime.

When he rides, my fears subside.
For darkness turns once more to light.
Through the skies, his white horse flies.
To find a land beyond the night.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 17:54
Talk Talk all the wayThumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 17:29
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and on that note.. we are already into the 3rd age... in 10 years when we revisit these contests. Be prepared for 3 brackets. Classic prog, modern prog, and the post prog, the age of progressive music.

the dividing line.. 2011 when prog flatlined.  The cancellation of Nearfest when prog and progressive audiences fractured. Prog bands went after prog fans.. progressive bands went after music fans.


Ten Years ? Wow ... what do we all do in the meantime ?

Still and all by then it will be hopefully a better more mature world where Secret Chiefs 3 do not lose out to IQ. Oh callow youth.

Oh lord I can see it now .... umpteen discussions as too whether or not the sons and daughters of Gabriel et al should get together for a Sprogs of Genesis Tour. Shocked


Edited by t d wombat - August 05 2015 at 17:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 06:08
^ and on that note.. we are already into the 3rd age... in 10 years when we revisit these contests. Be prepared for 3 brackets. Classic prog, modern prog, and the post prog, the age of progressive music.

the dividing line.. 2011 when prog flatlined.  The cancellation of Nearfest when prog and progressive audiences fractured. Prog bands went after prog fans.. progressive bands went after music fans.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 05:51
Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

Originally posted by Komandant Shamal Komandant Shamal wrote:


I voted for "Spirit of Eden" ClapClapClapClapClap but how 'classics' that were released 27 years ago could be 'moderns' and therefore in the battle of modern albums?
isnt that a nonsense to call "moderns" the albums from 80s, even if we know that these polls are just for fun and nothing but fun?
edit: and wouldnt be a too big nonsense even for these for-fun-only polls if in the modern albums grand finale you get eg some album from 80s and another thats released in 00s?


Thinking that myself. Mickey .... was there any serious attempt at setting a cut off point for Modern v Classic or was the final decision simply a refusal to be dictated too by the outdated rules, regulations and traditions of the English language ?  LOL 

Anywho .... some albums I simply cannot make all the way through so forgive me if I am wrong but from what I hear of Queensryche they appear to be nowt but yet another Deep Purple wannabe.

Otoh, I do like Talk Talk though I've always lumped them in what I'd think of as Prog Lite with such outfits as Simple Minds, Ultravox, Japan and the like. I confess though that by the time Eden was released I wasn't listening to them at all. Nice album.  Wish I'd been aware of it back in the day.


I posted this way back in the tournament threads.

The whole matter and actual year of the dividing date was something we heavily discussed and debated. The first notion was to use Neo as that dividing point.. from the classic where they were aping Genesis to later when they started aping PT LOLWink

it worked until we saw that ..ahem.. prog is not all symphonic and aping and mimicking the classics.

Post-Rock and prog metal. Both had their beginning in our haphazardly designated cut off which so we shifted the cut date into the 80's for the modern to take into account the beginning of prog metal and Post-Rock. All agreed they would be horribly out of place in the 'classic' prog section.


Edited by micky - August 05 2015 at 05:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 04:49
Originally posted by twalsh twalsh wrote:

  Suite Sister Mary would have been a better, 'proggier' song selection.


which is why that was used for the 1st round poll... I do try to avoid using the same samples
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2015 at 02:59
Operation: Mindcrime (1988) - Queensryche by far
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 20:13
Can both lose?

I guess Mindcrime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 17:50
Originally posted by Komandant Shamal<br>I voted for Spirit of Eden <img src=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif height=17 width=18 border=0 alt=Clap title=Clap /><img src=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif height=17 width=18 border=0 alt=Clap title=Clap /><img src=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif height=17 width=18 border=0 alt=Clap title=Clap /><img src=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif height=17 width=18 border=0 alt=Clap title=Clap /><img src=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif height=17 width=18 border=0 alt=Clap title=Clap /> but how 'classics' that were released 27 years ago could be 'moderns' and therefore in the battle of modern albums? 
<div>isnt that a nonsense to call moderns the albums from 80s, even if we know that these polls are just for fun and nothing but fun? <br></div>
<div>edit: and wouldnt be a too big nonsense even for these for-fun-only polls if in the modern albums grand finale you get eg some album from 80s and another thats released in 00s?</div>[/QUOTE Komandant Shamal
I voted for Spirit of Eden ClapClapClapClapClap but how 'classics' that were released 27 years ago could be 'moderns' and therefore in the battle of modern albums?
isnt that a nonsense to call moderns the albums from 80s, even if we know that these polls are just for fun and nothing but fun?
edit: and wouldnt be a too big nonsense even for these for-fun-only polls if in the modern albums grand finale you get eg some album from 80s and another thats released in 00s?
[/QUOTE wrote:




Thinking that myself. Mickey .... was there any serious attempt at setting a cut off point for Modern v Classic or was the final decision simply a refusal to be dictated too by the outdated rules, regulations and traditions of the English language ?  LOL 

Anywho .... some albums I simply cannot make all the way through so forgive me if I am wrong but from what I hear of Queensryche they appear to be nowt but yet another Deep Purple wannabe.

Otoh, I do like Talk Talk though I've always lumped them in what I'd think of as Prog Lite with such outfits as Simple Minds, Ultravox, Japan and the like. I confess though that by the time Eden was released I wasn't listening to them at all. Nice album.  Wish I'd been aware of it back in the day.


Thinking that myself. Mickey .... was there any serious attempt at setting a cut off point for Modern v Classic or was the final decision simply a refusal to be dictated too by the outdated rules, regulations and traditions of the English language ?  LOL 

Anywho .... some albums I simply cannot make all the way through so forgive me if I am wrong but from what I hear of Queensryche they appear to be nowt but yet another Deep Purple wannabe.

Otoh, I do like Talk Talk though I've always lumped them in what I'd think of as Prog Lite with such outfits as Simple Minds, Ultravox, Japan and the like. I confess though that by the time Eden was released I wasn't listening to them at all. Nice album.  Wish I'd been aware of it back in the day.


Edited by t d wombat - August 04 2015 at 21:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 16:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Well I own Mindcrime even though it doesn't really do much for me. I listened to Talk Talk for the first time today and quite enjoyed it. I heard elements of Velvet Underground, Stones & REM. Doubt I'll buy it but it gets the vote.
Laughing Stock is probably even more in your direction. A bit more subdued, but a bit further 
left field. Considered, along with Slint's Spiderland, the beginning of post-rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 16:38
Queensrhyche.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 16:37
My mind is a crime! Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 16:01
Before PA, I thought Talk Talk was only a pop band.  I like hwo they sound, but Mindcrime was my favorite recording for years. Shame QR has released so little of note since 1994.   Suite Sister Mary would have been a better, 'proggier' song selection.
More heavy prog, please!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2015 at 11:26
Talk Talk !...........saw 2 used Queesnryche   cd's at the local record store  the other day and passed them by. Never got into them.
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