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Kati 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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 Posted: September 08 2015 at 22:36 |
 Triceratopsoil wrote:
Mugabe is begging the white farmers to come back because nobody left in Zimbabwe is willing or able to farm successfully... wow great coup
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Mugabe said what?! Where does it say that he is requesting white farmers to return? That guy is most evil.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: September 09 2015 at 09:31 |
Kati wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Mugabe is begging the white farmers to come back because nobody left in Zimbabwe is willing or able to farm successfully... wow great coup
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Mugabe said what?! Where does it say that he is requesting white farmers to return? That guy is most evil. |
It seems to be true. Google "Mugabe white farmers back" and you get quite some results. 
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: September 09 2015 at 09:35 |
I wanted to mention "Gandhi" but I saw Iván already did that. Well, he's no doubt my choice.
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Flight123
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2010
Location: Sohar, Oman
Status: Offline
Points: 1399
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Posted: September 15 2015 at 05:43 |
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Jeremy Corbyn!!
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: September 15 2015 at 11:00 |
lazland wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
^Very much agree with you there.We all see the world through our own little keyhole.......but you have got to inject a little common sense into all of this, and by that I mean implementing a critical and logical approach to history........and if you use those two when putting a man like Mugabe under the microscope, you'd no doubt have the same bad taste in your mouth as I had, when I first saw someone posting a pic of him in order to highlight another questionable 'revolutionary'. It is possibly the most surreal thing I've seen on PA as of yet (and I've seen some weird sh*t).
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Absolutely, David. The key phrase you use is "through our own little keyhole", and Svetonio's is smaller than most.
The poor people of Zimbabwe have, basically, swapped one repressive regime for another. A White Fascist regime for a black one, and neither any better than the other. Mugabe is not a freedom fighter, he is a dictator, who did, and continues to do, ruthlessly wipe out any form of legitimate opposition, and now acts in the finest tradition of ruthless dictators by grabbing as much money and assets as he can, and ensuring that the succession when he eventually buggers off to his maker is kept "in the family". That, by the way, will not succeed. When he dies, there will be all hell to pay, and, as usual, it will be the poor common people who suffer.
Where Svetonio and I will probably find some common cause is who is, ultimately, to blame for all of this. It was the good old Imperialists. When we left, and Empire crumbled, we, under a cloud of liberal angst, or stupidity (delete according to taste), imagined somehow that our colonial subjects would adapt to a democratic system such as ours easily, and welcome it. Of course, our democracy (in reality, still a technocratic establishment ruling the roost) has taken centuries to develop. We expected them to have it in a couple of years. We still do, by the way. Just look at the mess we have made of the Middle East, imagining that the "Arab Spring" would lead to a utopian land of freedom and democracy. We keep sticking our oars in, and we always, without exception, make things worse.
Revolution is very rarely, if ever, the answer. Following blindly, as Svetonio does, the words and deeds of atrocious, murdering lunatics, and their power mad followers, is never the answer. Common cause between decent, kind, but most of all, principled peoples of the world is. When we get there, I suspect I will be long gone from this mortal coil.
A last word. So called Liberal democracies promulgate this mad idea that they (and it is they, in our name, but not us) imagine they can solve all of the world's problems with their own political template. In reality, they barely run their own countries, let alone anyone else. We are governed in the West by the hegemony of big money, and the establishment which leeches onto it. Having said that, I would rather that than being run by the mad Stalinists, Trots, Fascists, Religious maniacs, and all the other nasty little monkeys witnessed running some of these places.
Svetonio's error is in believing that everyone who loathes our system is automatically virtuous and right. In most cases, they are a damned sight worse, and modern history bears very heavy witness to this.
I despair of the left, and I am allowed to state this, because I was, once, a part of it.
Look.......no photos to prove my point.......... |
You was leftist in your country so I'd like to ask you -
what would be a workers' revolution and the state, today? It's difficult to imagine such a thing, isn't? However, it's hard to imagine only b ecause we have not seen anything like that for a long time in Europe, but it should be noted that neither the first wave of world revolutions which started with the Russian revolution of 1917 also did not have role models. The first workers' state established back in 1871, a dress rehearsal for a revolution in Russia itself occurred in 1905, when the working class and peasant revolt suffocated and democratic freedoms only partial innings. Serbia had a dress rehearsal for workers' revolution on October 5, 2000, but the lack of left political alternative in the working class ensure that the fruits of October 5 were took all by that upstart Milošević's nationalistic bourgeoisie. It should therefore learn the lessons of 1871. It should build a ruthless that will push the working people to take power and to defend it exclusively for themselves and their allies. Actually, t hat is the main lesson of the Paris Commune (you should know it as an ex-leftist).
Edited by Svetonio - September 15 2015 at 11:26
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: September 15 2015 at 11:14 |
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Then raise the scarlet standard high
Beneath it's folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll wave the red flag once a year
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What?
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: September 15 2015 at 11:26 |
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Fred Durst
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 03:49 |
Kati wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Mugabe is begging the white farmers to come back because nobody left in Zimbabwe is willing or able to farm successfully... wow great coup
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Mugabe said what?! Where does it say that he is requesting white farmers to return? That guy is most evil. |
I do
shamelessly quote myself:
| Actually, Robert Mugabe was becoming well known and respected revolutionary in the seventies when he was led his people to freedom from racist tyranny of the White minority. Yes I know that many people were lost their lifes back then, but the freedom is always expensive, isnt? In the seventies, Yugoslavia was helped his fight with a lot of war material. Btw, Yugoslavia had one of the biggest arms production in Europe in the seventies; even A-bomb we were able to produce easily as we had have the material for that aswell, but Tito, as an humanist, was against the nuclear weapons in general. Robert Mugabe became prime minister in 1980, exactly the same year when Tito died. So even if President Mugabe really was so much corrupted and "evil" later, as the Western propaganda says, Tito had nothing to do with that, simply because Marshal Tito was already dead when Robert become the prime minister. |
And President Mugabe said this (actually in an interview where he was talking about his revolutionary fight back in day)
Edited by Svetonio - September 16 2015 at 03:49
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 04:10 |
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Mugabe once said something nice about someone who sold him guns. Quelle surprise.
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What?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15783
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 10:31 |
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Can I vote for Galileo?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 10:43 |
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Yes you can Pat.
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What?
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 11:57 |
Politics is not one of my strong suits but it seems to me that half of the ones listed in the poll aren't even true revolutionaries by definition (primarily associated with politics..?)....at least based on what I read and the list at Wiki.....but then maybe I just don't know who they are. So since we are using loose definitions here I vote for Louis Pasteur because I love what he did for milk and other dairy products...as well as his medical discoveries.
Edited by dr wu23 - September 16 2015 at 12:13
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 12:27 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Politics is not one of my strong suits but it seems to me that half of the ones listed in the poll aren't even true revolutionaries by definition (primarily associated with politics..?)....at least based on what I read and the list at Wiki.....but then maybe I just don't know who they are. So since we are using loose definitions here I vote for Louis Pasteur because I love what he did for milk and other dairy products...as well as his medical discoveries.
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Thank you for posting the link but at that wiki page, although it's not a bad article, the list is not really valid because Gavrilo Princip is not on that list.
Edited by Svetonio - September 16 2015 at 12:28
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
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Points: 6673
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 12:38 |
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Nelson Mandela has no votes ? Odd
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 14:55 |
Svetonio wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Politics is not one of my strong suits but it seems to me that half of the ones listed in the poll aren't even true revolutionaries by definition (primarily associated with politics..?)....at least based on what I read and the list at Wiki.....but then maybe I just don't know who they are. So since we are using loose definitions here I vote for Louis Pasteur because I love what he did for milk and other dairy products...as well as his medical discoveries.
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Thank you for posting the link but at that wiki page, although it's not a bad article, the list is not really valid because Gavrilo Princip is not on that list.
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As I said I'm no expert in politics but I looked him up and he's an assassin not a 'revolutionary' by anyone's standard. By your criteria John Wilkes Booth would also be a revolutionary since he also assassinated an important leader. But if you need a better explanation , I'm sure someone here will provide it.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 17995
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 15:00 |
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Svetonio has already shown how incomprehensible his political beliefs are, he could say he likes Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Netanyahu, Mao Zedong, and Kim Jong-Il and I still wouldn't be surprised.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 15:05 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Svetonio has already shown how incomprehensible his political beliefs are, he could say he likes Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Netanyahu, Mao Zedong, and Kim Jong-Il and I still wouldn't be surprised.
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I'm beginning to see that.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 15:06 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Politics is not one of my strong suits but it seems to me that half of the ones listed in the poll aren't even true revolutionaries by definition (primarily associated with politics..?)....at least based on what I read and the list at Wiki.....but then maybe I just don't know who they are. So since we are using loose definitions here I vote for Louis Pasteur because I love what he did for milk and other dairy products...as well as his medical discoveries.
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Thank you for posting the link but at that wiki page, although it's not a bad article, the list is not really valid because Gavrilo Princip is not on that list.
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As I said I'm no expert in politics but I looked him up and he's an assassin not a 'revolutionary' by anyone's standard. By your criteria John Wilkes Booth would also be a revolutionary since he also assassinated an important leader. But if you need a better explanation , I'm sure someone here will provide it. |
Princip is, in fact, a terrorist and assassin and your explanation is spot on.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 22:02 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Politics is not one of my strong suits but it seems to me that half of the ones listed in the poll aren't even true revolutionaries by definition (primarily associated with politics..?)....at least based on what I read and the list at Wiki.....but then maybe I just don't know who they are. So since we are using loose definitions here I vote for Louis Pasteur because I love what he did for milk and other dairy products...as well as his medical discoveries.
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Thank you for posting the link but at that wiki page, although it's not a bad article, the list is not really valid because Gavrilo Princip is not on that list.
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As I said I'm no expert in politics but I looked him up and he's an assassin not a 'revolutionary' by anyone's standard. By your criteria John Wilkes Booth would also be a revolutionary since he also assassinated an important leader. But if you need a better explanation , I'm sure someone here will provide it. |
Gavrilo Princip was a revolutionist of his time because that shot at Franz Ferdinand wasn't a shot at Franz Ferdinand as an individual, it was a shot at the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austro-Hungarian Empire was extremely hostile to the Slavs. Adolf Hitler, after the occupation of Sarajevo, issued an order that a plaque of Gavrilo Princip that the nazis brought to him.
The monument of Gavrilo Princip in Belgrade A street graffiti with a quote of the part of poem by Gavrilo Princip that he wrote in prison "...Our shadows will walk in Vienna Wander around the palace, And to afraid the nobles..."
Edited by Svetonio - September 16 2015 at 22:54
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GKR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
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Posted: September 16 2015 at 22:29 |
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I've studied a lot of revolutionary movements... and all, I mean, really, ALL have begin in a pacific way.
When you presented an alternative to a opressing system, he give you back slaughtering and violence. Then, when the survivors get up the ground, holding their dead at one hand and a gun at the other, this guy is blamed as a violent person.
So, I would never condenming armed fight, never.
Oh, Rosa Luxemburg was a not a pacifist "I will never touch a gun" like someone brought up. Nor Nelson Mandela, who was a guerrila fighter who work with the communists - by the way, Angolan Communists helped ended the Appartheid and Mandela thanked them, when president.
Things are a little more complicated than right and wrong, black and white...
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Who is your favourite revolutionary?
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