Roger Waters bass work |
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2091 |
Topic: Roger Waters bass work Posted: November 10 2015 at 13:30 |
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I think Roger understands his limitations as a musician - he said as much in that Howard Stern interview. Roger does, however, have the good taste to allow others to carry out his musical vision. Hand over the bass to the pro and let him/her manifest what's in his head.
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:49 | ||||
^ Fair 'nuff. Well written review (as often you do....)
I love the album, but I too, question just what it is with ol' Syd. I do respect his work of the day, though I question the 'genius' that many folks see in him........ |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19626 |
Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:13 | ||||
I don't remember Mathilda standing out from the pack of Barrett-era short tunes. here is what I had to write about Piper in 04: Many Floyd detractors are usually giving the good nod only to this album, because they are fans of Syd Barrett's silly ditties and discard the rest of the group as mere support cast. This is of course immensely unfair, because the other three members, while no virtuosos, where definitely the musical backbone of the group, as cold be then seen or heard in concert way back then. Indeed, their live appearances were about lengthy and improvised tracks and featured way more than Barrett's twee songwriting, no matter how popular it was on the radio airwaves. To be quite honest, Barrett's so-called genius is not quite as evident as some would have you to believe on this Gates Of Dawn album, as there are no songs that equal the potential of their previous two singles "Emily" and "Arnold". There are indeed a bunch of short songs that were about quaint British/English weirdness, but it's nothing that The Beatles had done a few months before with Sgt Pepper or Magical Mystery Tour and the Fab Four did that much better. Sooooo those thinking these short tracks are pure genius are forgetting this album post-dates Sgt Pepper by three months (June and Sept 67) and you can find the same kind of madness in albums that came out that same fall, namely Procol Harum's debut (Mabel, Garden Fence etc..), Traffic's Mr Fantasy (the non-album singles like Paper Sun & Hole In My Shoe and Berkshire Poppies, Coloured Rain ) and The Nice's Thoughts Of Emerlist (Flower King, Bonnie K, Maggie), although the latter two came out in December that same year, so Floyd might have been influential on these. Where Floyd does the difference is in the more obscure and longer tracks, thus giving us another facet of their crafts, the live one. While the album-opening Astronomy Domine might appear as another poppish track, the three other musicians do marvels and it's little wonder it will be the only track that will survive in concert past Barrett's replacement and all the way until the release of Ummagumma. Another track is the gigantic Interstellar Overdrive, le lengthy track that sets the tone to Space Rock. Another weirdie is Pow R Toc H, where the whole group plays abstract and often dissonant music, thus showing enough depth to grab the serious music punters' attention. Roger Waters' sole penned track is a relatively instrumental, since there is only one verse (not that good), the rest featuring them playing and soloing. Sooo discarding the other three acolytes to magnify the ephemeral genius of Barrett is unjust. In this album, the producer clearly chose to go with the Barrett facet, and as such, it was a good commercial choice. I would not hate to see this album reissued with the Emily and Arnold and their B-sides as added bonus! They'd blend in well with the album's madness and would therefore make Syd's Floyd-contribution complete in one disc. Hard to say this album is not essential (historically, anyway), but at least I can say that it's only moderately good. |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: October 23 2015 at 02:59 | ||||
^ You, of all people, you don't think anything of Matilda Mother ?? Anyway, this is the Rick I like (I want a Farfisa.....professional duo..........)
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19626 |
Posted: October 23 2015 at 02:53 | ||||
I never held Barrett in high regard, TBH... Barrett's so-called "genius" was his visionary songwriting angle, but he was hardly a better muso than the other three. The only Barrett Floyd hit or short pop tune that I like is Arnold Layne... The rest is mainly utter-nonsense... and outside Overdrive and Astronomy (and to a lesser extent Pow'R), I don't find much to keep in Piper. |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: October 23 2015 at 00:10 | ||||
I've said it once, maybe twice, could even be thrice, but when watching Waters perform on the Pompeii film, yes, he's a righteous bassist.
Edited by Tom Ozric - October 23 2015 at 00:11 |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: October 22 2015 at 21:59 | ||||
Yeah, I had kind of thought about that point of him not being a main songwriter in the beginning. But still, I think Waters did wrote about himself not considering to be a bass player, but a song writer. I think it was in the liner notes from the "In the Flesh" live album. But perhaps I missed a bit about how this came to be... I mean, I must have read it over 10 years ago... perhaps even 15. |
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: October 22 2015 at 14:42 | ||||
That's where you and I part company, Hank. |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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sublime220
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 21 2015 Location: Willow Farm Status: Offline Points: 1563 |
Posted: October 22 2015 at 13:51 | ||||
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There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: October 22 2015 at 11:59 | ||||
Yes Gilmour was a tad superior muso to the other three (and millions miles ahead of Barrett)... [/QUOTE] Don't you think that's a little harsh, friend? I mean, I'm no fan, but the man was somewhat of a visionary of the band and a decent musician in his own right. Try lightening up a little. |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 15014 |
Posted: October 22 2015 at 10:46 | ||||
I've never actually thought this was true. Roger even thanked Dave for helping him win "best bassist" polls. It's not that big of a deal, because the bass guitar really never stood out in Floyd apart from "One of These Days" and "Have a Cigar" (and select other moments), but it's common knowledge Dave recorded quite a few of the basslines. Roger may have had an initial concept of what the bass part should be, but Dave being much more of a musician refined improved and refined them.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19626 |
Posted: October 22 2015 at 03:44 | ||||
As I wrote in this thread I tend to side with Waters for reasons stated in there... I'd tend to agree with you (and Roger) about the best way to see him, but.... I'm not that sure that he took the bass, just to be in the band and write songs... in the early Barrett days, Waters was not all that instrumental (pun intended) in writing songs ... at least not more than Wright would've been... IMHO, of course |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: October 21 2015 at 22:30 | ||||
I do tend to be more on the side of Gilmour than Waters on the fighting side of Floyd, but in the end I do like what they both have done, both together and by themselves, and I do know that they both did their best when working together (and with Wright too, and I guess also Mason, though he does have much less writing credits). And besides, Waters was more of a songwriter than a bass player, and I believe that's the way he thinks of himself, I understand he really took the bass because the band needed a bass player. However, I do like what he and Mason did with Floyd a lot, specially on their earlier albums where they did some really interesting stuff.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19626 |
Posted: October 21 2015 at 02:51 | ||||
yeah, sorry maybe, but there are Gilmour bashers (for continuing Floyd and not doing much worthy since) and there are Waters bashers (for acting like a tyrant and imposing his so-called "farther-less childhood" to the world >> which is pure BS, since only one or two songs off The Wall and TFC are related to that issue) the Waters bashers like to hint that Roger couldn't play bass at all, or at least not well (and pictures showing Wright tuning his bass on stage, because Waters was incapable of doing it himself), which is why Gilmour had to help him out, especially on the Animals sessions... but this is pure BS, since Waters had to play both Dogs & Sheeps' bass parts on stage for years before getting in the studio. |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: October 20 2015 at 22:26 | ||||
I didn't intend to bash Waters, I was just writing what I had read some time ago... checking it out in wikipedia as the latest poster suggested, it's indeed true, it was both Gilmour and Waters and using effects to achieve the sound. Who of the two came up with the idea, I don't remember, though I do believe it was Gilmour who was fond of experimenting with studio tricks. As for Waters having Gilmour play bass because he himself prefered to play rhythm guitars, I don't see why he would have to choose one over the other on studio, since he could play both and overdub, just as I imagine Gilmour had to do in order to play the bass and the lead guitars. |
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zravkapt
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6446 |
Posted: October 20 2015 at 05:39 | ||||
There is clearly two different bass guitars at the beginning of that track. http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_These_Days_%28instrumental%29 |
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Magma America Great Make Again
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19626 |
Posted: October 20 2015 at 02:52 | ||||
You sound like a Waters basher.... Waters is like Wright and Mason.... and Gilmour (even him).... Not great musicians in terms of technique, but they were giants in terms of ideas developed (at least during the 70's) Yes Gilmour was a tad superior muso to the other three (and millions miles ahead of Barrett) and he might have been a better bass player than Waters (though there is nothing to really suggest this), but Waters wrote all the bass parts. If Gilmour indeed plays bass on OOTD, it's the middle section , once he's stopped playing his bottleneck lapsteel-sitar thing... the booming bass entrance is 100% Waters. if in Sheeps & Dogs, Waters asked Gilmour to play bass, it is because he wanted to play rhythm guitar (like on Pigs on the wings)... he needed the r.guitar experience, as he was soon to make the Wall demo tracks all alone, while Dave & Rick were recording their solo albums, thus using all of their valid musical ideas for themselves instead of putting them in the Floyd bucket. But even in Sheeps & Dogs, the bass parts were written by Waters, since the music existed prior to WYWH, and was played on stage many times????
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: October 19 2015 at 21:32 | ||||
But One of these Days has both Waters and Gilmour on bass, and actually I think it was Gilmour who developed the technique for the bass on this song... which had some good studio tampering about it. |
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RockHound
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 03 2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 520 |
Posted: October 19 2015 at 20:35 | ||||
My thoughts exactly. I consider the driving, echoed bass Waters' signature sound.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: October 18 2015 at 21:24 | ||||
Yeah, I guess Skins should count among the early drumming stile I liked from Mason. That was a nice touch on that last album, among a few others. I guess the bass isn't so outstanding throughout, though. |
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