Enjoyment, Musicianship, Artistic Merit

Do you think you can appreciate the artistic merit of an album, without enjoying it at all? - Definitely.

Do you think you can listen to music that has a high level of Musicianship, but doesn't give you any pleasure? (Gorguts - Obscura comes to mind) - Not for long.  This is my problem with Dream Theater.

Is "Enjoyment" the only important quality in music? - No but it may be the most important for me.

Is "Enjoyment" the only important quality in progressive music? - No

Is it a good thing that prog musicians can have other, different goals in mind when they make music? - Yes.  Different people have different ways of enjoying music.  Some want their music to be fun, others to have a beat they like, others (like me) to change often so it doesn't bore them, and others are very much looking for strong musicianship or that art experience (the art experience is very important for me, too).  I'm glad prog musicians have different goals so there's more variety out there.

paganinio wrote: I've been thinking about the three different qualities of prog rock music. It's probably not as obvious as some may think, so a discussion is gonna start!   Enjoyment, Musicianship, Artistic Merit   An "Essential" prog rock album has all three elements covered. Red, Wish You Were Here, Close to the Edge, all of them are 1) enjoyable to listen to, 2) have a high level of musicianship, and 3) have a high degree of artistic merit.   But in most albums, you only get one or two of these qualities. So let's look at them one by one.   Enjoyment - How much pleasure you get from listening to it. It's a subjective quality, but it's also the easiest to define and measure. You feel happy when you listen to album A. You feel boring when you listen to album B. It's unambiguous and clear.   Musicianship - Instrumental skills, compositional skills, vocal abilities, etc. This one is a little harder to measure. But in most cases it's still very clear. Steven Wilson is clearly a more proficient guitar player than, say, Frank Zappa. (If he's not, just use a different example.)   Artistic Merit - now here's a quality that has nothing to do with the other two As prog lovers, we have all heard albums that 1) we don't find enjoyable to listen to, 2) don't have a particularly high level of musicianship, but 3) somehow have that "artistic" feeling surrounding them.   Some people might say, "if it's not enjoyable, why do we care". But you have to admit there's a real difference between "an album I just don't like" and "an album I don't like, but appreciate as a work of modern art".   For me White Noise's An Electric Storm, VdGG's Godbluff, and every GY!BE album fall into this category.  I mean Godspeed You! Black Emperor don't strike anyone as amazing guitarists or drummers or anything but they just sound like they have a higher degree of artistic merit than most bands.   IMO "Artistic Merit" is impossible to define and measure, but you can't deny it's there.       So if anyone's interested, I have a few questions.   Do you think you can appreciate the artistic merit of an album, without enjoying it at all? Do you think you can listen to music that has a high level of Musicianship, but doesn't give you any pleasure? (Gorguts - Obscura comes to mind) Is "Enjoyment" the only important quality in music?  Is "Enjoyment" the only important quality in progressive music? Is it a good thing that prog musicians can have other, different goals in mind when they make music?

You forgot one quality which I merit more than anything else: Originality. By that I mean "not being run-of-the-mill". Many albums of the late 60s and early 70s, prog or not, have this quality, which is why I love this period.

Most albums of today, however, do in my opinion lack that quality, simply because "more originality" usually means "less commercial potential" to the producers. There are of course exceptions, but they are few.

Enjoyability is of course a highly subjective notion, and doesn't always correlate with musicianship or artistic merit. The latter two are somewhat more intersubjective but still difficult to gauge. Also, musicianship and artistic merit don't always go hand in hand. It also depends on the kind of musicianship. There are many pieces of technical metal that are fiendishly difficult to perform, but have little to no artistic value and will soon be forgotten, like the excesses of 19th-century virtuoso music now mercifully forgotten. A masterful composition that makes good use of its resources, on the other hand, need not be difficult to play. Think of Pink Floyd, whose instrumental skills were good but not super-spectacular, and nevertheless made excellent music. (An example from classical music would be the C major prelude from the Well-Tempered Clavier Book I by J. S. Bach. Easy to play, but ingenious.)

And yes, I can recognize musicianship and artistic value in music I don't enjoy.

paganinio wrote:   Musicianship - Instrumental skills, compositional skills, vocal abilities, etc. This one is a little harder to measure. But in most cases it's still very clear. Steven Wilson is clearly a more proficient guitar player than, say, Frank Zappa. (If he's not, just use a different example.)