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uduwudu View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is the world better off because of the Internet?
    Posted: September 30 2016 at 05:46
Yes.

and no.

We are more aware of our failings and felines faster.

It's like religion, politics and racism - so long as the common herd can be distracted by these stupid things we think we know something about; we are not focussed on the rich getting richer at our expense. They only care that we care about this rubbish.

Which reminds me... apparently Deutsche Bank are set to blow the world's economy into smithereens. Something bout being sued by the US got for 14 billion USD (they have less than half that available in litigation fees and a 42 trillion euro market exposure. The hugest and most sensitive market exposure by a single entity ever (I think). Well apparently 20 times worse than Lehman Bros. Apparently too late for significant shorts but someone with a whole lotta cash might consider being the only one left with a wheel barrow full of cash no-one wants or needs after the oncoming financial meltdown

Didn't know that before the www.

Anyway the internet exists so computers can talk to one another once we have given ourselves a nuclear holocaust.  Ever since '69. Twenty to 25 years later we got the tabloid equivalent - linked web pages. Oh, but we have prog archives and that is a carefully nurtured resource of value and culture. Quite rare on the web.

We'd still have human evil but now we know about it sooner.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2016 at 03:30
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

IF Raff didn't have all those cute cat vidoes and pictures to download than she'd actually want to get a real cat. 


Here's one for you:

No internet, no Micky & Raff...


Heart

lucky she came into my life first via PA's Porn circa 2006..... for there was ANOTHER... LOL



Ah, you missed out, buddy







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 23:50
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

pfff.. what kind of question is that.

1. instant access to any flavor porn you like...
2. destruction of the music industry as we once knew it
3. zero excuse for being ignorant or uninformed
4. instant access to music
5. internet shopping!



Ok... but you missed one. Raff will tell you Tongue


don't try to outwit the Big Mick Angelo.. way ahead of you there...

don't think I didn't think to include THAT in my personal favorite internet porn flavor...

smokin hot Italian cougars with cute Queen's Engish accents who have freaks on for mentally unbalanced but hot American studs LOLLOLLOLHeart A limited porn flavor I must admit.. but hey.. it beats some of the flavors I've heard are out there LOLThumbs Up

LOL

Well, Italian ladies are just great, I'll grant you that. 


Edited by Angelo - September 27 2016 at 23:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 12:49
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

IF Raff didn't have all those cute cat vidoes and pictures to download than she'd actually want to get a real cat. 


Here's one for you:

No internet, no Micky & Raff...


Heart

lucky she came into my life first via PA's Porn circa 2006..... for there was ANOTHER... LOL








The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 12:40
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

pfff.. what kind of question is that.

1. instant access to any flavor porn you like...
2. destruction of the music industry as we once knew it
3. zero excuse for being ignorant or uninformed
4. instant access to music
5. internet shopping!



Ok... but you missed one. Raff will tell you Tongue


don't try to outwit the Big Mick Angelo.. way ahead of you there...

don't think I didn't think to include THAT in my personal favorite internet porn flavor...

smokin hot Italian cougars with cute Queen's Engish accents who have freaks on for mentally unbalanced but hot American studs LOLLOLLOLHeart A limited porn flavor I must admit.. but hey.. it beats some of the flavors I've heard are out there LOLThumbs Up
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 10:24
Meh, I wrote something like that already yesterday, Jim :P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 02:13
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

IF Raff didn't have all those cute cat vidoes and pictures to download than she'd actually want to get a real cat. 


Here's one for you:

No internet, no Micky & Raff...

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 18:58
i have to google google - can't remember anything, isn't that what computers are for.........

Indian President isn't that Bigfoot? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 18:41
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

It has become just an access or a ....portal, if you wish. I asked a Canadian what the capital of Canada was and he needed to google it, stating that it was not IMPORTANT enough to be in his brain!

Yes, just because you can google it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to learn it.  But I remember a survey conducted about 15 years ago where many Indians could not recall the name of the President.  This would not be unusual (since the Indian President is merely a ceremonial head of state) but in the case, the President was high profile, having formerly been involved with India's atomic programme and frequently made public appearances.  And yet, people drew a blank.  So it is not new for a lot of people to be clueless about things which we may believe are important to know.  The fact is that they are not important to know 99% of the time.  It is during that 1% of the time when you really need to remember and for whatever reason cannot access the net that having reasonable awareness helps.  Again, the latter is more of a third world problem.  I suppose it must be very rare to lose internet connectivity anywhere anytime in a country like Canada. It is like how our grocers can remember how much veggies they sold to who (and Indian customers can come up with myriad combinations of a quarter to more than two kilos of a given vegetable and buy half a dozen or more varieties of vegetables in one outing) and calculate the price accurately...without a calculator.  You don't necessarily NEED that ability if you are equipped, but the ability to do so keeps your mental reflexes fast and that is what we are losing out in general with increasing technological aid.


Edited by rogerthat - September 26 2016 at 18:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 18:10
Just like everything humans create, there is a definite two edged sword with the Internet. It has not made people more intelligent, informed or caring. Its just a depository of information which has the tendency of erasing the need to know. It has become just an access or a ....portal, if you wish. I asked a Canadian what the capital of Canada was and he needed to google it, stating that it was not IMPORTANT enough to be in his brain! It has also become the tool of frustrated psychotics who can't afford a psychiatrist (which may be a good thing) and use blogs to spew their lies, disappointments, deceptions and mostly ill-informed criticisms with impunity. I am so sick of leaving comments anywhere anymore because the responses are idiotic, primitive and mostly false. I just might get a response to this rant and be pilloried by some anonymous troll, only because one can do so without any restraint or fear. On the other hand, it is a great tool when used properly. 
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 17:49
The list of things mankind has created that make the world better off isn't very big. I doubt the internet would be on it either.

That said, it is useful. Much of the internet has devolved to turmoil and chaos, but there are still wonderful people and places if you go looking.  Beer
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 15:33
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

pfff.. what kind of question is that.

1. instant access to any flavor porn you like...
2. destruction of the music industry as we once knew it
3. zero excuse for being ignorant or uninformed
4. instant access to music
5. internet shopping!



Ok... but you missed one. Raff will tell you Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 15:29
Yeah the Porn, don't forget the PornClown  Google Earth Porn Even!

Edited by EddieRUKiddingVarese - September 26 2016 at 15:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 13:14
Google Earth...how could I ever have hoped about that app. I can't believe it and don't care about how machiavelic the intents behind it might have been!

Anything medical instantly addressed by patients with similar issues

Social challenges: for any situation at any level... Anyone who doesn't get protection by a pseudo must have very good nerves, and train his wits like a veteran wit warrior. 

Let's encourage people not to point accusing fingers at others.

I owe internet a massive deal !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2016 at 13:24
Definitely better off........and we wouldn't be here debating this on a great prog rock forum  if it didn't exist....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2016 at 09:10
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

No passive medium can make (as in force) us to react in a certain way but it can make (as in cause) us react in a certain way. If we presume that the Internet contains the sum total of man's knowledge then what we draw from it can be used to "make" us anything we want to be, yet it doesn't. The point (in context) I was making was the Internet has the potential of bringing us together as a global nation yet what we (deliberately) take from it has the opposite effect. 

Because of what we choose to read we are more inclined to react favourably to something that reinforces a belief (or prejudice) and unfavourably against something that attacks that belief (or prejudice), so even though that baseline of normalised inherent insularity without the Internet is not outwardly visible (we do not wear our hearts on our sleeves) the Internet "makes" it visible by virtue of what we access and how we react to it. 



OK, so our views aren't necessarily very different, except that yours is far more pessimistic.  India has had communal riots since long before computers, let alone internet.  So I don't think the insularity we see is SOLELY the effect of the internet or that that is the only thing that we all get out of the internet.  Of course, if enough of us start believing that that is all the internet is good for, maybe we will still land up in that destination.   By the way, we (my family) don't/didn't necessarily absorb Western/American culture passively.  The books, the movies had already familiarised us to a large extent with what to expect in America but we could use the internet to find out not only what places to visit in NYC but which train would take us there.  I especially could keep pace with the variety of accents we encountered while there (like this 20 something white male in a subway station who spoke very fast; I realise only upon reflection that it would have been difficult for Indians not comfortable in English to understand him).  I think all of those things would have been much more difficult without the internet, but hey what do I know.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2016 at 11:22
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Dean, I could go point by point disagreeing with many of the things you have said above, starting with the notion that we only use the internet to confirm what we already know.  But long story short, I still want to know how the internet MAKES us parochial and insular.  Internet is just a thing.  It cannot make us behave in a particular way unless we are already capable of it and have already exhibited such behaviour.  If you had said it makes us project our latent parochial and insular tendencies (because the anonymity of the net emboldens people to voice their opinions more confidently), I would have agreed with you.  Or perhaps that is what you are trying to say.  I am just saying we have already shown magnificent capacity to hate each other in the rich history of our civilization, so we don't need the internet to find excuses to kill fellow humans. 
The simplest way I can think of is to quote Shakespeare when he says "Clothes make the man", which of course they don't but being Shakespeare he doesn't mean it literally (in fact in context he was being somewhat sarcastic because the punchline to that was "...which is doubly true in France" but hey-ho).

Now, it can be argued that changing our clothes changes who we are but sadly (as someone unkindly pointed out) I look like a tramp even when wearing a £1000 suit and behave the same regardless of what I am wearing. Frequently my wife has berated me for wearing my best clothes when decorating or answering the door in my dressing gown ... ("I didn't know I had a door in my dressing gown"). Truth is we select our clothes to suit who we are so what we wear defines who we are and when Shakespeare says clothes make the man he means we are judged by the clothes we wear.

Now I wasn't being quite that poetic nor was I using "make" in quite that way, but I wasn't being literal either. The Internet doesn't literally make us parochial and insular but that does not mean we cannot become parochial and insular as a result of what we read on the Internet. 

No passive medium can make (as in force) us to react in a certain way but it can make (as in cause) us react in a certain way. If we presume that the Internet contains the sum total of man's knowledge then what we draw from it can be used to "make" us anything we want to be, yet it doesn't. The point (in context) I was making was the Internet has the potential of bringing us together as a global nation yet what we (deliberately) take from it has the opposite effect. 

Because of what we choose to read we are more inclined to react favourably to something that reinforces a belief (or prejudice) and unfavourably against something that attacks that belief (or prejudice), so even though that baseline of normalised inherent insularity without the Internet is not outwardly visible (we do not wear our hearts on our sleeves) the Internet "makes" it visible by virtue of what we access and how we react to it. 


What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2016 at 10:42
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Dean, I could go point by point disagreeing with many of the things you have said above, starting with the notion that we only use the internet to confirm what we already know.


On this point, one could say we already do that with books, newspapers and TV news bulletins.
I try to remember who wrote, in the early 20th century, that sentence: "First, we read a newspaper because it has the same opinions as us. Then, we read the newspaper because we have the same opinions as it".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2016 at 09:21
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:


@ Madan.... Interesting, they called the sauces "pickles" which at the time I couldn't figure out, since pickles to an American 10 year old are those little cucumbers immersed in a brine.  So perhaps this was simply a language thing....only about half of their large family spoken any English and so there were always fun times with conversations.  Another lasting gift from this friendship was learning all about Carrom.  His uncles would play this game for hours on the floor of their living room, and when they were finished, we were allowed to play.  It was so much fun I bought an authentic Carrom board for my own family and this game is part of many of our holidays!

OK, pickles, yeah, that's legit spicy. LOL  I got confused because you used the word sauce.  And yes, carrom is very much a part of Indian households.  Did you used to sit on the floor to play carrom or mount the board on a table and pull up chairs?  As you may or may not have noticed, people from South India are fond of sitting on the floor, especially with legs crossed. 


Everyone, even the older men, played sitting cross legged on the floor.  Never saw the board on any table. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2016 at 09:11
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:


@ Madan.... Interesting, they called the sauces "pickles" which at the time I couldn't figure out, since pickles to an American 10 year old are those little cucumbers immersed in a brine.  So perhaps this was simply a language thing....only about half of their large family spoken any English and so there were always fun times with conversations.  Another lasting gift from this friendship was learning all about Carrom.  His uncles would play this game for hours on the floor of their living room, and when they were finished, we were allowed to play.  It was so much fun I bought an authentic Carrom board for my own family and this game is part of many of our holidays!

OK, pickles, yeah, that's legit spicy. LOL  I got confused because you used the word sauce.  And yes, carrom is very much a part of Indian households.  Did you used to sit on the floor to play carrom or mount the board on a table and pull up chairs?  As you may or may not have noticed, people from South India are fond of sitting on the floor, especially with legs crossed. 
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