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yam yam View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Bands and Artists suggestion has disappeared
    Posted: September 06 2016 at 12:14
Don't know whether this is actually a bug or a bit of admin censorship, but the suggestion from 30th January this year by forum member Usire to include Rudé Kostry in Crossover (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105684), which I posted in this afternoon to let folks know that the band's main page had been created (http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=9901) - but that it needed the two albums adding to complete it - has now completely disappeared from the site with the error: "There are no posts in the database relating to this topic" being returned when I try to access it.

The original post contained some useful info and links, and I don't know what I might have done wrong by posting an update to it in this way, so any light that can be thrown on what has actually happened here by those in the know would be very much appreciated. Unhappy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2016 at 17:15
here is the page content from Google's cache:

Hi, I want to suggest Czech band Rudé Kostry (Red Skeletons) for heavy prog but I was redirected to crossover. I was never fan of categorization:)

They released some demos and two LP studio albums. Rudé Kostry were initially a thrash metal band from who moved over to acoustic sound around 2002. Co-authors of soundtracks for various computer games, e.g. Vietcong. The are in the phase of deep winter sleep from the end od first decade od new millennium.

2002 Kytice lží
  1. Ručičky 
  2. Nadhlavník
  3. Počítání do jedné 
  4. (Španělské) mušky
  5. Nepřístojnost 
  6. Černá pole 
  7. Štetináčova půlnoční rychlovka/Půjčovna lidí 
  8. Sibiřská romance/Perezvon a Žučka 
  9. Seržante?! 
  10. Hranice stínu 
  11. Divný noční hmyz 


2006 Budiž šero
 Rudé Kostry 2006 Budiž šero

  1. Večerní šero 
  2. Hudba 
  3. Sestra úzkost 
  4. Její břehy
  5. Zkouška ohněm
  6. Bohyně ticha
  7. Večer pátého dne
  8. Kateřina 
  9. Mademoseille Váreňka
  10. Vynálezce světla
  11. Ranní vidina
  12. Ranní šero
  13. Nocní šero
Both albums recorded same members
Petr Mores - guitar
Pavel Mores - guitar
Vlasťa Kozubík - drums
Vladimír Beránek - bass and vocals

Some other information(in Czech)
http://www.rudekostry.cz


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2016 at 17:23
Hi, sorry for my belated reply but the Admin Team consider it's kinda controversial entry so now a pending case ... the thread is still alive but David, your post has been hidden temporarily.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2016 at 18:37
Thanks Keishiro.

I understand that the reason for the controversy is that the two albums are no longer available to purchase commercially...but what about all the obscure private pressing German one-album bands that have been added here over the years, whose albums can only be bought secondhand on eBay these days for a small fortune? Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2016 at 10:31
since when have albums being OOP/unavailable made an artist 'controversial' If that had stopped the genre teams back in the day  you could have sliced off a sizeable chuck of the database for those thread/dicussions would have been hidden. This is database.. nothing more.. nothing less. And not simply one of albums still in print today.

besides.. as we all know.. controversial additions are by nature.. interesting ones.  One should be encouraging those discussions.. not shutting them down or hiding them.. encouraging interest in the database thus the general forum auto-cruise and one stop shop for prog forum trolling the site has been become.


Edited by micky - September 07 2016 at 10:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2016 at 12:03
^ following that logic to its, erm, logical conclusion then it's quite likely the reason the Admins deem Rude Kostry 'controversial' is not that at all but something more rational.

Edited by Dean - September 07 2016 at 12:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2016 at 15:45
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

I understand that the reason for the controversy is that the two albums are no longer available to purchase commercially...

This statement was based on something that was said to me in a private message from one of our Special Collaborators (though admittedly not a member of the admin team). I've no idea if it is the real reason for the controversy or not. I've never known a suggestion thread become hidden before, though - even if the suggestion does relate to a controversial addition. Why not simply state the reason for the controversy in the thread for all to see and comment on? Isn't that what the forum was put here for to begin with...? Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2016 at 02:53
^ Dunno why this thread has disappeared until recently (I've NOT hidden this thread entirely, honest to say).

Now we can see publicly (with my sincere comment).


Edited by DamoXt7942 - September 20 2016 at 02:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2017 at 19:58
Guys

As part of the clean-up that is currently being undertaken within Crossover, I am trying to get everything correct within PF, and adding bands that have been cleared by the team. Please can someone advise what is going on with these guys? (bear in mind I'm only just back).

If they have been removed from PA, can someone let us know why that action has been undertaken, and either respond to this thread or in Crossover so that we can understand what we are supposed to do next? Thanks
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2017 at 20:46
The original suggestion thread was made visible again a couple of weeks after it was hidden, with Keishiro adding this comment:
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

They've not released any physical album nor downloadable one except free ones ... cannot be included to PA library yet.

Please let us know if they release in a commercial manner.

My own post announcing that the artist had been added to the database is now shaded in grey with the words 'Pending Approval' lightly stamped below the text: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105684&PID=5367736#5367736.

I'm still a bit baffled because we have added plenty of bandcamp artists here in the past who have made their music available either as 'free download' or 'name your price', so why is Rudé Kostry  any different? Confused

I guess he will just have to bide his time in the 'cleared' area on progfreak - either that or maybe move him to 'discuss' for now, though it appears that since the artist hasn't been active during the last six years, the matter will most likely never actually reach a conclusion based on Keishiro's last comment (above). Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2017 at 20:52
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

The original suggestion thread was made visible again a couple of weeks after it was hidden, with Keishiro adding this comment:
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

They've not released any physical album nor downloadable one except free ones ... cannot be included to PA library yet.

Please let us know if they release in a commercial manner.

My own post announcing that the artist had been added to the database is now shaded in grey with the words 'Pending Approval' lightly stamped below the text: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105684&PID=5367736#5367736.

I'm still a bit baffled because we have added plenty of bandcamp artists here in the past who have made their music available either as 'free download' or 'name your price', so why is Rudé Kostry  any different? Confused

I guess he will just have to bide his time in the 'cleared' area on progfreak - either that or maybe move him to 'discuss' for now, though it appears that since the artist hasn't been active during the last six years, the matter will most likely never actually reach a conclusion based on Keishiro's last comment (above). Ermm

I wasn't aware that a cost element was required. My understand was that for a band to be included then the following applied:-

please only suggest bands that have released at least one album and are compatible with our definition of an "official release." If the band is signed to a label, it is almost guaranteed this band fits this definition, but if the band is self-signed, please ensure that the band has recorded their music professionally or in a professional manner and has their music available for purchase or download from a respected source.

My view is quite simple - if it is determined by Admin that they are not to be included, then we should remove them from the PF Crossover chart and the matter is closed. Please can someone confirm that this is still the case, and I will take the appropriate action in PF. Putting them into Discuss doesn't really achieve anything...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2017 at 21:00
Yeah, I guess you're right. Acceptance under the free release policy is solely at the discretion of the genre team evaluating the artist and the admin team (see here), and in this case the answer was clearly 'no'. So - case closed.  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2017 at 04:31
Originally posted by kev rowland kev rowland wrote:

Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

The original suggestion thread was made visible again a couple of weeks after it was hidden, with Keishiro adding this comment:
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

They've not released any physical album nor downloadable one except free ones ... cannot be included to PA library yet.

Please let us know if they release in a commercial manner.

My own post announcing that the artist had been added to the database is now shaded in grey with the words 'Pending Approval' lightly stamped below the text: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105684&PID=5367736#5367736.

I'm still a bit baffled because we have added plenty of bandcamp artists here in the past who have made their music available either as 'free download' or 'name your price', so why is Rudé Kostry  any different? Confused

I guess he will just have to bide his time in the 'cleared' area on progfreak - either that or maybe move him to 'discuss' for now, though it appears that since the artist hasn't been active during the last six years, the matter will most likely never actually reach a conclusion based on Keishiro's last comment (above). Ermm

I wasn't aware that a cost element was required. My understand was that for a band to be included then the following applied:-

please only suggest bands that have released at least one album and are compatible with our definition of an "official release." If the band is signed to a label, it is almost guaranteed this band fits this definition, but if the band is self-signed, please ensure that the band has recorded their music professionally or in a professional manner and has their music available for purchase or download from a respected source.

My view is quite simple - if it is determined by Admin that they are not to be included, then we should remove them from the PF Crossover chart and the matter is closed. Please can someone confirm that this is still the case, and I will take the appropriate action in PF. Putting them into Discuss doesn't really achieve anything...


The question about this band was brought up to us by Louis himself because he was having trouble adding a band that was difficult to find covers and album info and who only had their albums available on their site, not in a purchasable/free album form but literally in the form of impractical links of each song to an mp3 file that you would have to get at with 'save target as'.

This doesn't change anything about the suggestion policy, unsigned bands with prog music recorded in a quality manner and on a official release are still welcome, we just got involved in this case because we think that some cases of unsigned bands should be just let go if teams have so much trouble getting the info right. There are different levels of being an unsigned artists if you will.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2017 at 04:47
Oh George's ninja'd me already. Tongue

My opinion is above mentioned / as my PM says. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2017 at 05:11
Originally posted by historian9 historian9 wrote:

Originally posted by kev rowland kev rowland wrote:

Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

The original suggestion thread was made visible again a couple of weeks after it was hidden, with Keishiro adding this comment:
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

They've not released any physical album nor downloadable one except free ones ... cannot be included to PA library yet.

Please let us know if they release in a commercial manner.

My own post announcing that the artist had been added to the database is now shaded in grey with the words 'Pending Approval' lightly stamped below the text: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105684&PID=5367736#5367736.

I'm still a bit baffled because we have added plenty of bandcamp artists here in the past who have made their music available either as 'free download' or 'name your price', so why is Rudé Kostry  any different? Confused

I guess he will just have to bide his time in the 'cleared' area on progfreak - either that or maybe move him to 'discuss' for now, though it appears that since the artist hasn't been active during the last six years, the matter will most likely never actually reach a conclusion based on Keishiro's last comment (above). Ermm

I wasn't aware that a cost element was required. My understand was that for a band to be included then the following applied:-

please only suggest bands that have released at least one album and are compatible with our definition of an "official release." If the band is signed to a label, it is almost guaranteed this band fits this definition, but if the band is self-signed, please ensure that the band has recorded their music professionally or in a professional manner and has their music available for purchase or download from a respected source.

My view is quite simple - if it is determined by Admin that they are not to be included, then we should remove them from the PF Crossover chart and the matter is closed. Please can someone confirm that this is still the case, and I will take the appropriate action in PF. Putting them into Discuss doesn't really achieve anything...


The question about this band was brought up to us by Louis himself because he was having trouble adding a band that was difficult to find covers and album info and who only had their albums available on their site, not in a purchasable/free album form but literally in the form of impractical links of each song to an mp3 file that you would have to get at with 'save target as'.

This doesn't change anything about the suggestion policy, unsigned bands with prog music recorded in a quality manner and on a official release are still welcome, we just got involved in this case because we think that some cases of unsigned bands should be just let go if teams have so much trouble getting the info right. There are different levels of being an unsigned artists if you will.
I agree completely.

When I wrote the self-release policy I tried to cover as many of the foreseeable issues as I could but obviously some bands would endeavour to be awkward and do things as differently as possible to millions of other self-release artists out there.

"Since these albums are not available from normal retail sources, the official band website address of where the download can be obtained should be listed in the "Releases information" section of the album page. To clarify for the hard of comprehending: this should be a link to the band/artist website page that contains the link to the download location rather than the direct download link itself."




Edited by Dean - January 26 2017 at 05:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2017 at 08:29
Thanks to everyone for clearing this one up. Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2017 at 12:20
Thanks guys - I've removed the artist from our cleared charts
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