Progarchives.com has always (since 2002) relied on banners ads to cover web hosting fees and all. Please consider supporting us by giving monthly PayPal donations and help keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
Joined: November 03 2006
Location: Rockpommelland
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Topic: Propaganda for Prog-Related Posted: September 22 2016 at 02:30
Propaganda were a synthpop / new wave band with a progressive style. Especially on their debut album (produced by Trevor Horn) they had few songs about 10 minutes.
They used a variety of instruments; synths, drums, saxophone, guitar, bass. They had two female vocalists, and intelligent lyrics.
The music is very progressive to say the least, pushing the boundaries of pop and electronic music, incoporating jazzy solo's on guitar, sax and synths, and avant garde and classical influences. They experiment a lot with synths, drums, arrangments, compositions etc.
They released one critically acclaimed album The Secret Wish, a few remix albums/reissues. And eventually another album called 1234. Especially the first album is a progressive masterpiece.
On the debutalbum the following musicians contributed: Steve Howe, Ian Mosley, Trevor Horn, Andrew Richards, David Sylvian, who are established progrock musicians.
I think we have two very different understandings of what prog rock is Sorry dude but this is the second time you suggest, what to me personally sounds like, an obvious synth pop act to a progressive rock site.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
I don't think that prog credentials are enhanced by the collaboration of prog musicians. If SW, David Gilmour, Robert Fripp, Neil Peart and Rick Wakeman ever assist Dr Dre on his forthcoming hip hop album, the album is still hip hop and it won't turn Dr Dre into a prog musician.
Such arguments may be used to suggest Kajagoogoo for Proto-Prog because one of its members grew to become one of the greatest bass players that the progressive rock scene has ever known .
Edited by someone_else - September 22 2016 at 09:23
Joined: November 03 2006
Location: Rockpommelland
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Posted: September 22 2016 at 10:30
I guess I'm very into the new wave/synthpop thing. I guess that genre is more progressive than progressive rock sometimes is.
I like Marillion, IQ etc, but I find those bands rather bland and not progressive at all. They just re-chew the old formula of Yes and Genesis.
There was a lot going on in the new wave, blame it on Trevor Horn
I find that when heavy metal bands like Iron Maiden and Metallica, are on this site, maybe at least some new wave/synthpop bands, that really went all the way in exploring sounds and technology, deserve a chance to be on the site.
On the other hand, if there's one that progressive (conservative) rock-enthousiasts hate, it's gotta be new wave/synthpop
I'll just keep trying and you'll just keep shooting them down. Maybe one day, bands like Kajagoogoo, New Order, Rupert Hine, Propaganda, Art of Noise, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, etc. have their own chapter on this site
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: September 22 2016 at 11:02
Ah, someone is falling into the noun vs. adjective trap. You need to watch for that, it's a doozy.
The surest way to look at it is like this: if you think you've found a well known band that somehow in the 13 years existence of this site that we (being the 100+ collaborators and 1000s of ordinary members) have carelessly overlooked then there are two possible explanations: 1) we thought of it and rejected it or 2) you're wrong.
Joined: November 03 2006
Location: Rockpommelland
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Posted: September 22 2016 at 11:20
If I look it at that way, then the whole option of nominating bands seems redundant.
Anyway, I like to listen to progressive music, regardless whether it's progressive rock or not. And maybe, just maybe, someone, somehow, someday will back me up on an act I try to get through.
I heard some users say they liked my nomination of My Brightest Diamond.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: September 22 2016 at 12:27
Kingsnake wrote:
If I look it at that way, then the whole option of nominating bands seems redundant.
For old bands it probably is. For very old bands definitely it is. For any band that has never been considered to Progressive Rock or who has never been associated with Progressive Rock it most definitely is.
Kingsnake wrote:
Anyway, I like to listen to progressive music, regardless whether it's progressive rock or not.
We all do. However this is a Progressive Rock archive not an archive of progressive music.
Kingsnake wrote:
And maybe, just maybe, someone, somehow, someday will back me up on an act I try to get through.
Or not.
Kingsnake wrote:
I heard some users say they liked my nomination of My Brightest Diamond.
So what? Do they fit any of the criteria I listed above?
Joined: November 03 2006
Location: Rockpommelland
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Posted: September 22 2016 at 15:29
Dean wrote:
Kingsnake wrote:
I heard some users say they liked my nomination of My Brightest Diamond.
So what? Do they fit any of the criteria I listed above?
Neither 1 or 2. It's a rather new act and I don't think I'm wrong.... But that's a whole other thread.
As for Propaganda. I always thought my view on progressive rock differed. When I enlisted to this website in 2006, there weren't as many subgenres as today. Nowadays, terrific acts like Journey, Miles Davis, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Santana, etc, inhabit the extensive website.
Maybe, just maybe, I thought we could bridge over to new wave. A lot of progressive rockbands were inspired by new wave: Rush, Saga, King Crimson, Yes, Twelfth Night, IQ, Porcupine Tree, etc.
I don't know if Japan is on the website yet, but that's supposed to be a new wave act aswell. And the keyboardist is currently the keyboardist in Porcupine Tree.
Adrian Belew came from Talking Heads and gave King Crimson a most needed boost.
Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes were in the Bugles and later on in Yes and Asia.
Pat Mastolotto played in Cock Robin and Mr. Mister and later became a core member of King Crimson.
So the ties to progressive rock are there. Evenso, the musicians in new wave are mostly very gifted, and as far as I learned from music history, it was new wave (and the use of synths) that gave progressive rock a new boost.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: September 22 2016 at 17:14
Kingsnake wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kingsnake wrote:
I heard some users say they liked my nomination of My Brightest Diamond.
So what? Do they fit any of the criteria I listed above?
Neither 1 or 2. It's a rather new act and I don't think I'm wrong.... But that's a whole other thread.
Yes - correct on three counts - they are new, you don't think you're wrong and that's for the other thread.
However, your brag here was not relevant.
As for Propaganda. I always thought my view on progressive rock differed. When I enlisted to this website in 2006, there weren't as many subgenres as today.
We have the same number, they are just classified differently - we now have three progressive metal subgenres but they're still progressive metal and we have three art rock subgenres but they're still art rock.
Nowadays, terrific acts like Journey, Miles Davis, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Santana, etc, inhabit the extensive website.
Journey is Prog Related and the rest are all Jazz Rock/Fusion, and those two subgenre were here when you joined, so whatever your point is it doesn't apply to Synthpop bands.
Maybe, just maybe, I thought we could bridge over to new wave.
If we ever wanted to do that (which we don't) then there are dozens of New Wave bands that would be added here before Propaganda, and we've rejected most of those already.
A lot of progressive rockbands were inspired by new wave: Rush, Saga, King Crimson, Yes, Twelfth Night, IQ, Porcupine Tree, etc.
And a lot of progressive rock bands were inspired by Bach and Stravinsky but we're not going to start adding classical composers here.
I don't know if Japan is on the website yet, but that's supposed to be a new wave act aswell. And the keyboardist is currently the keyboardist in Porcupine Tree.
I don't know if you've noticed this but Japan are in Prog Related in 2007 - obviously they sneaked in without any fanfare or outcry so you probably didn't notice it. I remember this well because I was one of the team members who voted them in. [so if you think you are discussing this with someone who has no knowledge or interest in the new wave, post punk and synthpop music of the early 80s and is blocking this "just because" then think again].
Aside from Barbeiri; Steve Jansen also appears here with Steve Wilson on an No-Man album and on solo albums by Tim Bowness and Steve Hogarth, he is also here on solo albums by his brother David and with all the other members of Japan in various projects including the one-off reunion they had as Rain Tree Crow; and of course Mick Karn worked with many prog artists and appears on numerous albums. HOWEVER - all of that is irrelevant - it's not how we add artists here.
Adrian Belew came from Talking Heads and gave King Crimson a most needed boost.
Your knowledge is unstounding - Belew worked with Zappa for a year and Bowie on Lodger before guesting with Talking Heads. But none of that is relevant.
Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes were in the Bugles and later on in Yes and Asia.
But that's no reason to add The Buggles. Not that it's relevant.
Pat Mastolotto played in Cock Robin and Mr. Mister and later became a core member of King Crimson.
You are being selective on Mastelotto's credentials here - he was basically a jobbing sessions drummer before joining Crimson. But that isn't relevant either.
So the ties to progressive rock are there.
Ties with music in general are there. But none of it is relevant.
Evenso, the musicians in new wave are mostly very gifted, and as far as I learned from music history, it was new wave (and the use of synths) that gave progressive rock a new boost.
In what way? I have some knowledge of music history - entertain me.
But I guess, I'm wrong, as stated before.
There is no right and wrong but there is relevant and irrelevant. Th
Joined: August 16 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 2809
Posted: September 23 2016 at 05:43
I LOOOOOVE Propaganda, but do not think they would be adequate for induction into Crossover Prog. Being "progressive" (which I would argue they were, just like, let's say, Tears For Fears), doesn't necessarily equate with "progressive rock".
HOWEVER
I actually find them a band of interest for the average prog listener (a few notches above your normal post-punk/synth-pop group), and helped by their abovementioned connections, I would not be opposed to seeing them added them Prog-Related.
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13249
Posted: September 26 2016 at 13:55
Kingsnake wrote:
Shall I, then, change the suggestion to prog-related?
You can, but, in all honesty, no hope, old chap.
To get accepted into the site as prog-related, you will need to find a sponsor from the SC/Admin class of collaborators, who, if they accept it (highly doubtful), will then take it to the private zone on the forum where they discuss such issues, and then come back to you with their rejection - erm, sorry, considered opinion.
Prog-related is a bit of a contentious issue around these parts, on account of piles of them being added back in the days of yore that many felt had no place here at all. Indeed, some cynical people even suggested that such acts had been included merely to add traffic to the site, and, thus, income. Shocking, eh?
As a result, the volunteers who run the show have, rightly, tightened up an awful lot of what, precisely, prog-related is, and, more to the point, why an act, who, by definition are not prog rock, are so important as to merit a special inclusion.
Propaganda might well be a good band, with some progressive tendencies in parts. They will, though, never be accepted for inclusion on this site, and, word to the wise, you are not only flogging a dead horse here, but risking a reputational issue on the forum by doing so.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
This page was generated in 0.181 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Propaganda for Prog-Related
Topic Options
Sorry dude but this is the second time you suggest, what to me personally sounds like, an obvious synth pop act to a progressive rock site.
.
Kingsnake wrote:
