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Camel vs Roxy Music
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Poll Question: Which band do you like the most
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
61 [66.30%]
31 [33.70%]
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TenYearsAfter View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 08 2024 at 05:46
No Camel album comes close to Viva! by Roxy Music featuring an excellent Eddie Jobson on the exciting electric violin, unique prog, still goose bumps during Out Of The Blue.
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Camel.
"PROG IS MY FERRARI".
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Camel
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

You say: they have a very unique emotional quality.

I guess it's their meditative/ecstatic musical mood, similar to Canterbury scene.
That's not quite what I mean. It's not that easy to put into words. It has more to do with their melodies than the overall musical mood, even though it helps that the mood fits the melodies. The way their melodies resonate with me (which may include parts of guitar solos etc.) is just special and there are few bands who do that. I can find something like this in some other Canterbury artists, but then we're maybe talking about an album's worth of material per artist, occasionally two. Camel has much more. Unfortunately I can't explain in "objective" terms how they do that.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

 
  Roxy Music seems to me to be more innovative, original, and engaging.
I can absolutely see why you write this. I voted for Camel not because of innovation and originality and actually "progress" (although you've got to give to them that every one of their albums has its own character and they never stood still), but rather because for me personally they have a very unique emotional quality. They have a very large number of songs throughout all of their albums (not even Single Factor is an exception in that respect) that touch me in a very direct way. In that respect they are second to none, not even my "personal top 5" (maybe in terms of importance of their music for my life overall they could even be up there). In another thread Jaketejas nominated them as one of two "big" bands in a category they had made up called "takes time to breathe", together with Pink Floyd. I think that they very consciously do not strive for innovation for innovation's sake, and I'm fine with that as much as I appreciate originality and surprise (Breathless is in many respects a very surprising album though). 

A band like Camel will always take a back seat when thinking about music in a manner that is all too oriented toward "objective" measurable qualities that will appeal to critics and intellectuals (although they are/were top quality instrumentalists with strong musicality). They are something of a symbol that music is so much more than that and that it is sometimes hard if not impossible to get intellectually at what makes music connect to people.

But then these qualities are obviously subjective, so if Camel's music doesn't connect to you (or only very little of it), none of what I write can change that. Personally I respect Roxy Music, but they just have some five tracks or so that connect to me, so they can't win, but if they are winners for others, so be it.

You say: they have a very unique emotional quality.

I guess it's their meditative/ecstatic musical mood, similar to Canterbury scene.
"Happiness is real only when shared"
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

 
  Roxy Music seems to me to be more innovative, original, and engaging.
I can absolutely see why you write this. I voted for Camel not because of innovation and originality and actually "progress" (although you've got to give to them that every one of their albums has its own character and they never stood still), but rather because for me personally they have a very unique emotional quality. They have a very large number of songs throughout all of their albums (not even Single Factor is an exception in that respect) that touch me in a very direct way. In that respect they are second to none, not even my "personal top 5" (maybe in terms of importance of their music for my life overall they could even be up there). In another thread Jaketejas nominated them as one of two "big" bands in a category they had made up called "takes time to breathe", together with Pink Floyd. I think that they very consciously do not strive for innovation for innovation's sake, and I'm fine with that as much as I appreciate originality and surprise (Breathless is in many respects a very surprising album though). 

A band like Camel will always take a back seat when thinking about music in a manner that is all too oriented toward "objective" measurable qualities that will appeal to critics and intellectuals (although they are/were top quality instrumentalists with strong musicality). They are something of a symbol that music is so much more than that and that it is sometimes hard if not impossible to get intellectually at what makes music connect to people.

But then these qualities are obviously subjective, so if Camel's music doesn't connect to you (or only very little of it), none of what I write can change that. Personally I respect Roxy Music, but they just have some five tracks or so that connect to me, so they can't win, but if they are winners for others, so be it.


Edited by Lewian - February 03 2024 at 04:41
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Surely Roxy Music.

I consider:

1) Camel
2) Mirage
3) Moonmadness
4) Rain Dances

(The Snow Goose is fine but modest)

1) Roxy Music
2) For Your Pleasure
3) Stranded
4) Country Music

(The other albums by the two bands I consider to be uninspired, run-of-the-mill - Camel's are artistically more dignified than RM's.)

If I compare these 4 albums, that is, their major works, it seems to me that the heights touched by Roxy Music with the first two were not touched by Camel. Roxy Music seems to me to be more innovative, original, and engaging.

But I know my opinions are in the minority here on progarchives, in fact in the Top 100 of all time there are three Camel albums, and none by Roxy Music.

Perhaps also because Camel represent in every way the British prog of the 1970s, they play a velvety prog, without great harshness, accessible to all (I would almost say commercial) in part symphonic and melodic like Genesis, in part with rock progressions punctuated by Latimer's guitar reminiscent of Pink Floyd's Gilmour, in part impressionistic and descriptive as in Canterbury's scene. They have their own autonomy, and recognizability in this synthesis, while having epigonic traits.

Their style is quintessential prog, they are the "moderates" of prog, very pleasant to listen to, very competent and elegant. Their music, I would say, is average prog of the Seventies, competing with that of Yes. But compared to Yes they are less pompous, less virtuosic, more fluffy.

But to me they don't often seem to touch that brilliance, that originality, that climax of the great prog albums of the 1970s. They seem to me to be one of the most competent groups in the second row of seventies prog. They also lack a singer of substance.

Roxy Music have nothing to do with that scene I just described. Roxy Music are the group of Bryan Ferry, a real histrion, one who created a genre of singing later copied throughout the 1970s and even 1980s. They are essentially an art-rock group, they don't churn out suites or long songs in many movements, they are art-pop-rock with Central European decadent and theatrical reminiscences.

In short, they give less satisfaction to those who love the canons of 1970s English prog.



Interesting comments. I would only add

Camel - The Snow Goose. This for me is the only outstanding and important Camel album. It's all instrumental and that puts them apart from most seventies prog bands who didn't go that way (apart for the jazz fusion mob but that's a whole different thing) even for one album. It was a risk but it paid off for them.

Roxy Music were a bit of a 'bail out band' for those that were already getting bored with traditional prog even back in 1972 (maybe it was becoming too pompous and far up it's own bum) but wanted art in their music. Ferry famously of course auditioned for King Crimson to replace Greg Lake. Fripp decided on a Lake clone instead despite later trashing GL in some interviews but that's another story!
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I've listened to Roxy longer, but would give Camel the edge.

Roxy does get extra points for the personalities in the band, which really stand out. The Camel guys are sort of anonymous in comparison, which isn't a big deal music-wise. Roxy added an extra dimension on top of their music.


Edited by Boojieboy - February 02 2024 at 17:54
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Surely Roxy Music.

I consider:

1) Camel
2) Mirage
3) Moonmadness
4) Rain Dances

(The Snow Goose is fine but modest)

1) Roxy Music
2) For Your Pleasure
3) Stranded
4) Country Music

(The other albums by the two bands I consider to be uninspired, run-of-the-mill - Camel's are artistically more dignified than RM's.)

If I compare these 4 albums, that is, their major works, it seems to me that the heights touched by Roxy Music with the first two were not touched by Camel. Roxy Music seems to me to be more innovative, original, and engaging.

But I know my opinions are in the minority here on progarchives, in fact in the Top 100 of all time there are three Camel albums, and none by Roxy Music.

Perhaps also because Camel represent in every way the British prog of the 1970s, they play a velvety prog, without great harshness, accessible to all (I would almost say commercial) in part symphonic and melodic like Genesis, in part with rock progressions punctuated by Latimer's guitar reminiscent of Pink Floyd's Gilmour, in part impressionistic and descriptive as in Canterbury's scene. They have their own autonomy, and recognizability in this synthesis, while having epigonic traits.

Their style is quintessential prog, they are the "moderates" of prog, very pleasant to listen to, very competent and elegant. Their music, I would say, is average prog of the Seventies, competing with that of Yes. But compared to Yes they are less pompous, less virtuosic, more fluffy.

But to me they don't often seem to touch that brilliance, that originality, that climax of the great prog albums of the 1970s. They seem to me to be one of the most competent groups in the second row of seventies prog. They also lack a singer of substance.

Roxy Music have nothing to do with that scene I just described. Roxy Music are the group of Bryan Ferry, a real histrion, one who created a genre of singing later copied throughout the 1970s and even 1980s. They are essentially an art-rock group, they don't churn out suites or long songs in many movements, they are art-pop-rock with Central European decadent and theatrical reminiscences.

In short, they give less satisfaction to those who love the canons of 1970s English prog.




Edited by jamesbaldwin - February 02 2024 at 17:40
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Camel without the shadow of a doubt but I like some RM too
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Both bands are very good, but I like Camel more
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Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

which is your favourite group, most progressive group of these semi-canterbury bands.
I'm voting for the Guildford Scene band. Smile
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I like both, but I listen more often to Roxy Music; sounds a bit more inventive and adventurous to me (prog or not).

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Both! Smile
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Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I've heard some roxy but I don't think I like em. Kinda sh*te but I maybe wrong 😎

That's your default setting so lets go with that then.

Camel are one of those bands that made prog better but didn't add anything new in the process. Total oxymoron if ever there was!

Roxy Music very much inhabit their own world and for me are the best of what I consider to be 'art rock' but in no way are they 'prog rock'. So if you are a prog snob then give wide berth to them. Otherwise their first 5 albums are unique and well worth checking out. Their later radio friendly approach does very little for me. Actually depressed me but then a lot of music from around that time had that affect on me.
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Roxy Music. Their first few albums are splendid. Camel is prog-lite. Camel is the Diet Coke of Prog. 
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Not really a tough choice for me... looking at the result Roxy Music is doing better than I'd have expected. I mean yeah, I do like the odd Roxy Music track, but...
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Quote but Camel get the nod from me this time.
Hopefully a wink too.
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I don't feel I know Roxy Music well enough to vote. 
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I do love the early Poxy Music stuff when Brain Eno was their resident knob twiddler (i.e. the first two albums), but Camel get the nod from me this time.
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