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Vompatti 
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 Posted: October 30 2016 at 20:43 |
 tszirmay wrote:
A Person wrote:
Being against the Israeli government and its occupation of Palestinian land is the only sensible position to have. I'd be very disappointed if he felt differently.
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Perhaps but you need to go there and see it for yourself , both sides have their fanatics but there are more-peace Israelis than any pro-peace movement in Arab all countries combined. I sadly, have visited the Holy Land as I choose to call it and I have an rather precise opinion based on what i had witnessed. Just sayin' in order to not be disappointed. |
If they're pro-peace, how come they haven't surrendered yet? 
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 20:55 |
My dear Vompatti, you funny creature , you. Have not seen Braveheart? Freedom. FREEEEEEEEDOOOOOM. C'mon, ya remember! Mel being torn apart in abject torture, screaming that infamous word. I would fight for my homeland if the cause is just. They haven't surrendered because they spend too much time at rock concerts and getting buzzed! Come back the next day with both hangover and feistiness. Its the neighborhood. Democratically elected Hamas and Hezbollah. . Ya have to see it with your own eyes. Israelis do! Nasty neighborhood indeed. Zionist Israelis amid any ocean of democrats , widening their empire, Russian/Soviet -Style!  Sorry I have to laugh.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
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Points: 20207
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:36 |
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You know the scots lost that war?
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Vompatti
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:40 |
Also Braveheart is an antisemetist :'( Also Zionism is just Jewish Nazionalism 
Edited by Vompatti - October 30 2016 at 21:41
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:46 |
Vompatti wrote:
Also Braveheart is an antisemetist :'(
Also Zionism is just Jewish Nazionalism
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No Gibson is! Is also a wacko. As for the second comment, you obviously visited TelAviv, arrested by the Gestapo (after all, Heydrich was half-Jewish), tortured in Acre's Citadel and then your entire family 'vernichtet' ! Right!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:48 |
Vompatti wrote:
Also Braveheart is an antisemetist :'(
Also Zionism is just Jewish Nazionalism
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I reiterate my first reply : Anti-Semitism about 5800 years old . Zionism about 150 . Wonder which came first? Hmmmmm! BTW Waters (via Vompatti) is not a communist , he is a rich opportunist and a poo disturber. He probably never visited the Holy land , and seen for himself the differences, which explains his simplistic and opportunistic views.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Vompatti
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:51 |
tszirmay wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
Also Braveheart is an antisemetist :'(
Also Zionism is just Jewish Nazionalism
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I reiterate my first reply : Anti-Semitism about 5800 years old . Zionism about 150 . Wonder which came first? Hmmmmm! BTW Waters (via Vompatti) is not a communist , he is a rich opportunist and a poo disturber. He probably never visited the Holy land , and seen for himself the differences, which explains his simplistic and opportunistic views. |
Anti-Semitism came first, so I guess that means it's more valid? 
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KingCrInuYasha
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Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
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Points: 1281
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:51 |
tszirmay wrote:
...BTW Waters (via Vompatti) is not a communist , he is a rich opportunist and a poo disturber. ... |
That would make a good business card: Roger Waters - Poo Distributor. In all seriousness, I'd probably be a bit more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause if their leaders weren't a bunch of jerks.
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 21:51 |
Vompatti wrote:
Also Braveheart is an antisemetist :'(
Also Zionism is just Jewish Nazionalism
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It's about the Scots fighting the English, how the hell is that is anti-semetic? (Other than Gibson being an arsehole)
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 22:00 |
Anti-semitism, Nazism, Stalinism, Apartheid, Anti-African (American or otherwise), The Church, Isis, Hamas, The National Front, Facebook, Amazon, Paypal, whatever! it's all the same crap. Control mechanisms directed by manipulators who lead the manipulated!   This has been going on since Eden. All that technology and so little knowledge.
Edited by tszirmay - October 30 2016 at 22:02
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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A Person
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Joined: November 10 2008
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Points: 65760
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 22:28 |
tszirmay wrote:
A Person wrote:
Being against the Israeli government and
its occupation of Palestinian land is the only sensible position to
have. I'd be very disappointed if he felt differently.
|
Perhaps but you need to go there and see it for yourself , both
sides have their fanatics but there are more-peace Israelis than any
pro-peace movement in Arab all countries combined. I sadly, have
visited the Holy Land as I choose to call it and I have an rather
precise opinion based on what i had witnessed. Just sayin' in order to
not be disappointed. |
Unlike Waters I actually am a socialist, so I admit I find myself confused that you equate colonialism with peacefulness.
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 22:43 |
Confused only because you have never set foot in the Middle East! I am also a Center Socialist (Canada does work!) and I wonder colonialism by whom? I have seen Arabs and Jews together in coffeeshops , on the streets , everywhere in Israel , taxi drivers, postmen, normal folk. In Arab countries, I have seen no Jew anywhere, no synagogue , no nothing! Also if you read any objective history, Ben Gurion in 1948 pleaded for Arabs and Jews to build a Democratic Israel. The Grand Mufti changed that Palestinian dynamic big time.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 22:48 |
You mean colonialism like the British, French, Spanish,
German, Austrian, Ottoman, Chinese, American, Russian and once Japanese Empire?
Slightly larger than Gaza or the Golan, I would say.
Edited by tszirmay - October 30 2016 at 23:54
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Dellinger
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Posted: October 30 2016 at 23:33 |
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It bothers me how Water's view is usually taken as anti-jew by people. He is anti violence and opression and war. He is against the particular policy of the Israili government of erradicating the palestinian people. And how people get offended by the David's star shown in his shows... while the scene includes also christian crosses and capitalist simbols and so on...
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Sagichim
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Joined: November 29 2006
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Points: 6632
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Posted: October 31 2016 at 03:04 |
tszirmay wrote:
Confused only because you have never set foot in the Middle East! I am also a Center Socialist (Canada does work!) and I wonder colonialism by whom? I have seen Arabs and Jews together in coffeeshops , on the streets , everywhere in Israel , taxi drivers, postmen, normal folk. In Arab countries, I have seen no Jew anywhere, no synagogue , no nothing! Also if you read any objective history, Ben Gurion in 1948 pleaded for Arabs and Jews to build a Democratic Israel. The Grand Mufti changed that Palestinian dynamic big time. |
Thomas, once again you've nailed what I always thought was kind of milestone in the relationship between Israelis and Palestinians, while the Israeli side accepted the partition plan by the UN in 1947, the arab leadership turned it down. Ever since then the arab leadership have turned down every offer by the Israeli prime ministers including recent offers by prime ministers such as Barak and Ulmert who agreed to most of the palestinians demands including about 95% of land demanded by them. The arab leadership of course turned it down and has never made a single step towards peace, they never wanted to settle on anything, everyone has to meet their demands or else...
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javajeff
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Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Florida
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Points: 467
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Posted: October 31 2016 at 03:40 |
lazland wrote:
I contrast this with the incredible track Gaza, from Marillion's 2013 album, Sounds That Can't Be Made. This told the story of said territory from a child's perspective, and was incredibly even handed in its approach. Waters' approach is nothing like this. |
Not only is Gaza an amazing track, but the band was concerned about releasing it on the album. That type of concern is what makes Marillion classy and considerate. The child's perspective was genius, even if was from another side. Adults can actually learn a lot from Children. I realize Roger Waters has made political music, and I have been a Pink Floyd fan for years despite some of the content. Current posturing is uncomfortable.
Edited by javajeff - October 31 2016 at 03:56
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A Person
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Posted: October 31 2016 at 07:30 |
tszirmay wrote:
Confused only because you have never set foot in the Middle East! I am also a Center Socialist (Canada does work!) and I wonder colonialism by whom? I have seen Arabs and Jews together in coffeeshops , on the streets , everywhere in Israel , taxi drivers, postmen, normal folk. In Arab countries, I have seen no Jew anywhere, no synagogue , no nothing! Also if you read any objective history, Ben Gurion in 1948 pleaded for Arabs and Jews to build a Democratic Israel. The Grand Mufti changed that Palestinian dynamic big time. |
Canada has nothing to do with socialism, it is 100% capitalist. If you do not understand how the expropriation of land is colonialist then I am not sure I can help you.
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tszirmay
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Posted: October 31 2016 at 10:56 |
I don't need your help, thank you ! Being a historian, I certainly do not need you to educate me about anything. Canada is , according to the real capitalists (US Republicans and tea partyists, as well as many right wing fans) an outright socialist state: social insurance, welfare, workers comp, free healthcare, state education,etc...It has a free market economy. Its a western democracy. The only true socialist country, according to your logic, is North Korea. State owns everything and everyone there. I think you are a marxist ideologue fanboy who has inhaled little too much Pol Pot
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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tszirmay
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 6673
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Posted: October 31 2016 at 10:58 |
A Person wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Confused only because you have never set foot in the Middle East! I am also a Center Socialist (Canada does work!) and I wonder colonialism by whom? I have seen Arabs and Jews together in coffeeshops , on the streets , everywhere in Israel , taxi drivers, postmen, normal folk. In Arab countries, I have seen no Jew anywhere, no synagogue , no nothing! Also if you read any objective history, Ben Gurion in 1948 pleaded for Arabs and Jews to build a Democratic Israel. The Grand Mufti changed that Palestinian dynamic big time. |
Canada has nothing to do with socialism, it is 100% capitalist. If you do not understand how the expropriation of land is colonialist then I am not sure I can help you.
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NICE DEFLECTION!   very courageous ! 10 red stars! 
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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A Person
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Joined: November 10 2008
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Points: 65760
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Posted: October 31 2016 at 12:41 |
tszirmay wrote:
I don't need your help, thank you ! Being a historian, I certainly do not need you to educate me about anything. Canada is , according to the real capitalists (US Republicans and tea partyists, as well as many right wing fans) an outright socialist state: social insurance, welfare, workers comp, free healthcare, state education,etc...It has a free market economy. Its a western democracy. The only true socialist country, according to your logic, is North Korea. State owns everything and everyone there. I think you are a marxist ideologue fanboy who has inhaled little too much Pol Pot |
State ownership has nothing to do with socialism, neither does the DPRK or the Khmer Rouge. Calling capitalist reforms socialism is meaningless.
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Roger Waters & middle East politics