The American Politics Thread

*spits iced tea on monitor*

you could say that... we are experiencing the worst most dysfunctional 100 days of any modern Presidency.. and we have 4 years more of this. Yeah... Obama on his merits will and already is by Presidential historians looked upon very favorably.  Unlike voters... there are some who remember the domestic and foreign disaster he inherited and what a great job he did fixing one, and trying to limit the hemorgaging in the other.

however Trump will make the Obama years look even more golden. Warren 2020.. Trump is just setting the table for her and her brand of politics. Sooner or later people will finally realize that is the path this country has to take.  Conservative policies have proven to be failures.. and shame on you Trump voters for forgetting Bush and his cronies... and all the failures of trickle down economics.. and that rich oligarphs and silver spoon motherf**kers you continue to elect care one bit about you. 

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: don't you think that, regardless of motivation, Trump not reacting to the Russian election influencing etc., he is avoiding the fully-fledged confrontation with the Russians that Cheney and cronies would have us in at this very moment? Even if it is purely for business reasons.

But then of course: would Hillary react as extremely as Cheney/Bush would have?

npjnpj wrote: Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: don't you think that, regardless of motivation, Trump not reacting to the Russian election influencing etc., he is avoiding the fully-fledged confrontation with the Russians that Cheney and cronies would have us in at this very moment? Even if it is purely for business reasons. But then of course: would Hillary react as extremely as Cheney/Bush would have?

ignore the crap from Cheney's mouth... even the hawks.. and I am one myself know direct confrontation with Russia is a lose-lose proposition.  No one wins.. everyone loses.

ww3 doesn't start in the far east.. it starts in the Ukraine.

At issue is Trump turning a blind eye or enabling Putin...  something the neo-cons wouldn't do, nor did Obama, nor would Killary which is likely why in the most honest of circumstances (ignoring any business/finanical shenignans between Trump and the Russians) is why the Russians obviously wanted Trump.. not HIllary in the White House. Clinton is a tough experienced diplomat who, as much as the neo-cons wouldn't shy from swinging the sword,  Trump though.  A baby in a room of men in terms of diplomacy and world politcs. 

micky wrote: First 100 days.  He has accomplished.. a grand total... of nothing.

yeah man.. I stand corrected

nothing only if one doesn't count alienating...

the Federal Judiciary
the Federal Bureaucracy
any and all Democrats
the leaders of the UK, Germany, Russia, Mexico, N.K, and probably a few more on top of that haha

and tossing gas into the long simmering civil war within his own party. Now raging into a full blown inferno.. so much for accomplishing anything huh...

way to go Donald.. I'm sure that is exactly what those who bought your bullsh*t and elected you thought they'd get hahaha

npjnpj wrote: Another question: how many years do you think it will take to undo the damage that Trump has already done in about 100 days to US society (open racial discimination etc)?

It isn't new, I would say it's inevitable that it came out, and it's going to get worse. Maybe they were empowered a little early, but Trump didn't just inspire some people to become racist. Their resentment already existed, and it was bound to surface as economic pressures mount. For that matter, I've come to question whether there is a way forward at all. Consider this scenario:

Racial tensions will increase as the economy continues to pick winners and losers on ever more spurious whims. Older adults will become more outspoken as they gradually lose the ability to hold their tongues (both the sense of what is socially acceptable, and the self-control to keep it to themselves). Demographic balkanization will continue as driven by economic factors -- people will continue to move out of the heartland, populations of cities and near suburbs will continue to become more diverse as the exurbs remain pasty. This will all come to a head as the Boomers reach their peak age and dutifully crush the solvency of the federal government. The feds would have been able to borrow their way out in the short term and inflate themselves into the black later, but the massive debt run up beforehand will ruin that. The economic push toward taxing individuals rather than business led by the right will drain federal coffers further. Unemployment driven by automation will drive wage stratification considerably. The Boomers will begin divesting their real estate holdings as they age, and the glut of free properties driven by the current "recovery" (i.e. older adults owning multiple properties) will flatline the housing markets. Since the middle and poorer classes have most of their "wealth" invested in their real estate, their fortunes will crumble ever further. The loss of wealth and real estate employment thrusts the economy deeper into recession.

So we have massive social unrest, incredible economic stratification, massive unemployment, bitterness all around, and an ailing federal government with no means to lighten the load. With a political system based on shared responsibility pursuant to a strong middle class, the gears of governance grind to a halt. Sure, there are ways around, but there's no will to enact those means, and no time left to convince people to do it. With racial scapegoating inevitable, no Federal apparatus to oppose unrest, and weak states thrust into new duties without real infrastructure to handle them, resentment boils into violence. So maybe the damage won't be undone. Maybe we're just writing another bloody page in history.

Gamemako wrote: npjnpj wrote: Another question: how many years do you think it will take to undo the damage that Trump has already done in about 100 days to US society (open racial discimination etc)? It isn't new, I would say it's inevitable that it came out, and it's going to get worse. Maybe they were empowered a little early, but Trump didn't just inspire some people to become racist. Their resentment already existed, and it was bound to surface as economic pressures mount. For that matter, I've come to question whether there is a way forward at all. Consider this scenario: Racial tensions will increase as the economy continues to pick winners and losers on ever more spurious whims. Older adults will become more outspoken as they gradually lose the ability to hold their tongues (both the sense of what is socially acceptable, and the self-control to keep it to themselves). Demographic balkanization will continue as driven by economic factors -- people will continue to move out of the heartland, populations of cities and near suburbs will continue to become more diverse as the exurbs remain pasty. This will all come to a head as the Boomers reach their peak age and dutifully crush the solvency of the federal government. The feds would have been able to borrow their way out in the short term and inflate themselves into the black later, but the massive debt run up beforehand will ruin that. The economic push toward taxing individuals rather than business led by the right will drain federal coffers further. Unemployment driven by automation will drive wage stratification considerably. The Boomers will begin divesting their real estate holdings as they age, and the glut of free properties driven by the current "recovery" (i.e. older adults owning multiple properties) will flatline the housing markets. Since the middle and poorer classes have most of their "wealth" invested in their real estate, their fortunes will crumble ever further. The loss of wealth and real estate employment thrusts the economy deeper into recession. So we have massive social unrest, incredible economic stratification, massive unemployment, bitterness all around, and an ailing federal government with no means to lighten the load. With a political system based on shared responsibility pursuant to a strong middle class, the gears of governance grind to a halt. Sure, there are ways around, but there's no will to enact those means, and no time left to convince people to do it. With racial scapegoating inevitable, no Federal apparatus to oppose unrest, and weak states thrust into new duties without real infrastructure to handle them, resentment boils into violence. So maybe the damage won't be undone. Maybe we're just writing another bloody page in history.

I've stayed pretty mum here until Americans realize that Trump is a symptom of America's social disease and not it's cause. Racism that was always buried just under the surface in the larger populace has now become visible. Nothing more, nothing less. America is a socially damaged country and until that fact is recognized and addressed, nothing will change, except for those who are in charge.

Steven Bannon is hastily forced to vacate the National Security Council, with the White House giving its usual half-arsed excuses as to why. That the drunken fascist is gone is reason enough to celebrate, however a vast majority of Americans hope the reason for his firing is not due to a sex tape....

I feel bad for Bannon. Now he'll to walk to his park bench at night now that he no loner has a chauffeured limo.

npjnpj wrote: I'd really like to know: which president of the USA do you think was the last one to be the most universally revered?

Reagan was fairly popular, I didn't much care for him myself, but he was probably the most popular president in my lifetime.

npjnpj wrote: I'd really like to know: which president of the USA do you think was the last one to be the most universally revered?

Being universally revered requires that every person and policy grievance associated with that president be long dead. We haven't reached that point yet with anyone past perhaps Teddy Roosevelt (left office March 1909). Next likely to be lionized are FDR if Social Security holds up through the Boomers, maybe JFK later (being assassinated helps). Much too early to talk Reagan, especially since his particular political style may put him more on the Hoover side of history.