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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 64460
Posted: October 06 2018 at 17:12
"Abuse of democracy" ? You mean like when a president sends troops to invade another country without approval?; When a spy agency secretly bumps someone off?; A central bank increases interest rates?
There's nothing illegitimate about a nominee being elected as long as enough representatives support someone and procedures are followed. We can only legitimately complain about the nominee, not the institution. This is the great experiment, the tug-of-war between passionate and sincere beliefs, and that really sucks sometimes.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 64460
Posted: October 06 2018 at 18:02
Interesting thing is if Kavy had been taken down and Trump chose someone else, that person could've been worse. Much, much worse. I have little doubt Kavanaugh is Mr. Rogers compared to who else is lurking in the dark shadows of the judicial Right.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
Posted: October 06 2018 at 21:52
There's no proof of that, though. And before you wish to argue it doesn't matter, Slavo Zizek and co vociferously argued for a NYU professor accused of sexual abuse on the grounds that she had been such an important contributor to the cause of feminism. No sh*t! America really couldn't get back the middle soon enough. This tribalistic war with both sides playing victim and pretending the other is evil incarnate will consume democracy one day. When I read NYT and National Review, they are literally diametrically opposite versions of the same events, especially on a divisive issue like the Kavanaugh nomination. This is insane. I think the post modern fantasy of there being different versions of the truth has run its course and society should start to care about THE truth before it collapses on a thousand stinking lies.
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2764
Posted: October 06 2018 at 23:29
rogerthat wrote:
There's no proof of that, though. And before you wish to argue it doesn't matter, Slavo Zizek and co vociferously argued for a NYU professor accused of sexual abuse on the grounds that she had been such an important contributor to the cause of feminism. No sh*t! America really couldn't get back the middle soon enough. This tribalistic war with both sides playing victim and pretending the other is evil incarnate will consume democracy one day. When I read NYT and National Review, they are literally diametrically opposite versions of the same events, especially on a divisive issue like the Kavanaugh nomination. This is insane. I think the post modern fantasy of there being different versions of the truth has run its course and society should start to care about THE truth before it collapses on a thousand stinking lies.
As you can see from this thread, the left has completely abandoned the principle of due process, so I wouldn't get your hopes up about the middle coming back anytime soon.
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
Posted: October 07 2018 at 01:25
King Crimson776 wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
There's no proof of that, though. And before you wish to argue it doesn't matter, Slavo Zizek and co vociferously argued for a NYU professor accused of sexual abuse on the grounds that she had been such an important contributor to the cause of feminism. No sh*t! America really couldn't get back the middle soon enough. This tribalistic war with both sides playing victim and pretending the other is evil incarnate will consume democracy one day. When I read NYT and National Review, they are literally diametrically opposite versions of the same events, especially on a divisive issue like the Kavanaugh nomination. This is insane. I think the post modern fantasy of there being different versions of the truth has run its course and society should start to care about THE truth before it collapses on a thousand stinking lies.
As you can see from this thread, the left has completely abandoned the principle of due process, so I wouldn't get your hopes up about the middle coming back anytime soon.
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Posted: October 07 2018 at 11:20
npjnpj wrote:
I beg to differ. It looks more like abuse of democracy to me.
Democracy does not mean: you elected us so we can do what we want until the next election, although it's undoubtedly and increasingly treated that way.
Have you actually followed and understood all that has transpired? I doubt it. Let me explain democracy in terms that I think you can understand. I think that Republican Senators are douche bags. I just said so in print. It's only in a democracy that criticizing government officials won't get you poisoned the next day. Why is it that so many Europeans like yourself that are so close to, and in many aspects, still live in the shadow of the former USSR criticize democracies more than any other forms of government?
Edited by SteveG - October 08 2018 at 04:23
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Joined: October 19 2011
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Posted: October 07 2018 at 11:40
I had issues with Kavanaugh's 4th Amendment rulings. Several Kavanaugh rulings have NOT been privacy friendly. I love personal privacy. Why didn't the Dems hammer Kavanaugh on the 4th Amendment? But no, the Dems messed by supporting Uncollaborated dry humping, dick slapping, Gang Rape Cartel accusations. My favorite Kitty sums it up...
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 07 2018 at 12:11
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: October 07 2018 at 12:00
^ It was not the Dems that jumped on the Michael Avanotti gang rape accusation, only the Ford and Ramirez claims, in which they petitioned the FBI investigation. Had they quizzed Kavanaugh about the 4th Amendment, he just would have spun more BS while winking at the Republican Senators. He didn't get to be a high court judge by being stupid.
Edited by SteveG - October 07 2018 at 12:02
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: October 07 2018 at 13:35
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Much worse than a drunken rapist? I doubt that.
Really? Ultimately what will matter are a judge's rulings and opinions, and he might turn out to be moderate in that area. I'll take a molesting sot over a hard rightist who intends to ignore established law (such as Roe v Wade, civil rights, etc.) .
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: October 07 2018 at 17:28
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Why didn't the Dems hammer Kavanaugh on the 4th Amendment?
because it would have had as much affect on the proceedings as the sh*tty choices of interior decorators he has...
if committing perjury under oath (and yes perhaps sexual assault) was not enough to get 51 senators to vote against him what is your privacy against that or his past judicial rulings compared to that.
Let me ask you a question, a honest and serious one, and if you give me an honest answer.. I'll give you a prize.
do you know without looking it up.. what Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the constitution is...
oh why bother ..why would you.. for neither do our esteemed supreme court justices. This is a Court that cares nothing for your rights, your privacy, nor even the consitution.. but what it does care about.. Business. And your privacy is a hinderance to business. And you can thank those that put them there.. or do what I do.. blame the voters that put it all in motion.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: October 08 2018 at 04:37
The bottom line to the naysayers is this: If Democrats don't vote in the November midterms to reverse the balance of power we will just have more of the same. It's that easy. We may not get the votes but that's the deal.
Edited by SteveG - October 08 2018 at 06:24
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Joined: October 19 2011
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Posted: October 08 2018 at 04:49
micky wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Why didn't the Dems hammer Kavanaugh on the 4th Amendment?
because it would have had as much affect on the proceedings as the sh*tty choices of interior decorators he has...
if committing perjury under oath (and yes perhaps sexual assault) was not enough to get 51 senators to vote against him what is your privacy against that or his past judicial rulings compared to that.
Let me ask you a question, a honest and serious one, and if you give me an honest answer.. I'll give you a prize.
do you know without looking it up.. what Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the constitution is...
oh why bother ..why would you.. for neither do our esteemed supreme court justices. This is a Court that cares nothing for your rights, your privacy, nor even the consitution.. but what it does care about.. Business. And your privacy is a hinderance to business. And you can thank those that put them there.. or do what I do.. blame the voters that put it all in motion.
I don't know clause 3 from memory but isn't Article 1, Section 8 the "Powers granted to Congress" section? So Clause 3 would be one of 18 powers granted to congress. In my opinion Congress avoids using it's Powers. When was the last time Congress declared war? Answer- WW-2
Instead, Presidents send troops to war or ask Congress to authorize military actions. Over time, Congress has abdicated powers to the Bench and the President. Members of congress spend most their time raising money and getting elected. America needs Term Limits!
In my opinion Courts (including lower courts) often legislate from the bench. This is harmful. Congress is suppose to legislate!
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 08 2018 at 05:06
Joined: December 15 2012
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Posted: October 08 2018 at 16:12
SteveG wrote:
Why is it that so many Europeans like yourself that are so close to, and in many aspects, still live in the shadow of the former USSR criticize democracies more than any other forms of government?
Not that I necessarily agree with npj but what a strange comment. You realize this is the American Politics Thread right? Why would he be complaining about some dictatorships elsewhere? Beyond that this is not a familiar phenomenon for me...
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: October 08 2018 at 16:55
omphaloskepsis wrote:
micky wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Why didn't the Dems hammer Kavanaugh on the 4th Amendment?
because it would have had as much affect on the proceedings as the sh*tty choices of interior decorators he has...
if committing perjury under oath (and yes perhaps sexual assault) was not enough to get 51 senators to vote against him what is your privacy against that or his past judicial rulings compared to that.
Let me ask you a question, a honest and serious one, and if you give me an honest answer.. I'll give you a prize.
do you know without looking it up.. what Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the constitution is...
oh why bother ..why would you.. for neither do our esteemed supreme court justices. This is a Court that cares nothing for your rights, your privacy, nor even the consitution.. but what it does care about.. Business. And your privacy is a hinderance to business. And you can thank those that put them there.. or do what I do.. blame the voters that put it all in motion.
I don't know clause 3 from memory but isn't Article 1, Section 8 the "Powers granted to Congress" section? So Clause 3 would be one of 18 powers granted to congress. In my opinion Congress avoids using it's Powers. When was the last time Congress declared war? Answer- WW-2
Instead, Presidents send troops to war or ask Congress to authorize military actions. Over time, Congress has abdicated powers to the Bench and the President. Members of congress spend most their time raising money and getting elected. America needs Term Limits!
In my opinion Courts (including lower courts) often legislate from the bench. This is harmful. Congress is suppose to legislate!
term limits would be the best thing this country could do other than putting the whole of the f**king Republican Party against the wall for the crime of treason
or if one wants to be PC about it... just call it incompetence in name of putting party first over country.
There was a reason I mentioned that clause.. commonly known as the Commerce Clause...
South Dakota v. Wayfair
any Americans paying attention (well most aren't obviously) to that ruling earlier this year should be afraid.. very afraid.. for the very pretext of being strict constitutionists went by the wayside. Now they are the very judicial activiists.. they. .and their supports claim to be so against. Yet instead of the court being activist for YOUR rights as the good old days.. now they are out to protect business at your expense.. and be damned what the Constitution says. Not a matter of interpration.. just a flat out ignoring of what it DID say.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: October 08 2018 at 17:18
today saw some numbers that back up what I've been saying. Kavanaugh was a victory, to say nothing about Trump, that the Republicans might want to enjoy now for it along with the well established problem with minorities is a problem that might just doom the party in the years to come.
all of this mind you was of LAST year and we know what this year, this last month is going to do to these numbers
According to the Pew Research Center
In 1994 42% of women leaning Republican... in 2017 only 37% of women with only 25% identifying themselves as Republican
to compare men. In 1994 52% of men did, in 2017 it dropped to 48%
In 2014 white college educated women favored generic Democratic candidates by 2 points. In 2017 that has ballooned to 22 points.
Note it has long been established that women vote in higher numbers and higher rates than men.
In 2016 9.9 million more women voted than men. ie 63% of eligible women did while only 59% of men did
the point to all this. We have been in the midst of a widening gender gap... that that had gas thrown onto it by Trump, one can guess what this last month will do to it with Republicans, and nameless fool supporters making the entitled rich man the victim while ignoring women and their concerns.
It is like I called it the other day. It is a bullet to the head .. political suicide.. but just as Trump was.. they are too blinded by short term poltiics to see the reaper coming for them in their present incarnation as a party.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: October 08 2018 at 20:58
SteveG wrote:
The bottom line to the naysayers is this: If Democrats don't vote in the November midterms to reverse the balance of power we will just have more of the same. It's that easy. We may not get the votes but that's the deal.
hard lessons were learned in 2016... and I'm beginning to get a inkling we might see the same in 2018.
I'm starting to see movement in the polls reflecting what I thought might happen.. much as some saw happen with Trump late in that campaign after the FBI bombshell letter to Congress which most agree was what tipped the election to him. Most didn't see that having already thought Hillary had it in the bag, much as many think the Republicans have the control of the Senate in the bag due the almost historically unbalanced math the Demorats had to face this year.
I think the numbers are showing what we strongly suspected would happen in the aftermath of Kavanaugh....women are f**king pissed and extremely motivated to vote...and against the ruling party.
personally I think the chances are higher of retaking the Senate than most pundits are giving it. The only Democratic seat that looks lost is Heitkamp in N.D and they have solid and consistent leads in 2 other GOP seats. Only need one more and within close striking distance.. where a late surge can make a difference in two others.
Edited by micky - October 08 2018 at 21:00
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: October 09 2018 at 04:00
twseel wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Why is it that so many Europeans like yourself that are so close to, and in many aspects, still live in the shadow of the former USSR criticize democracies more than any other forms of government?
Not that I necessarily agree with npj but what a strange comment. You realize this is the American Politics Thread right? Why would he be complaining about some dictatorships elsewhere? Beyond that this is not a familiar phenomenon for me...
I'm not sure of what you mean. I said many Europeans like him. I should have said Europeans who think like him which, I agree, is really not many.I hope that clears up your concern.
Edited by SteveG - October 09 2018 at 04:07
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rogerthat wrote:
