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Topic ClosedEmerald Lies - neo prog

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puzart View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Emerald Lies - neo prog
    Posted: February 09 2017 at 03:38
Emerald Lies - different view pt. II - green turns blue
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01. Intro/Frizzling Death 9.28
02. Lies 4.07
03. Interlude I - On The Mountain 1.49
04. Cities 4.22
05. Grand Illusion 4.42
06. Mother Earth 5.44
07. Interlude II - On The Edge 1.52
08. U Turn 8.43
09. Requiem/Outro 6.04

Line-up:
J. Karl (Jok) - Basses
T. Kuchenmeister (ThomK) - Guitars
C.D. Weber (Cede) - Drums / Vocals





Emerald Lies - Different View, Pt. 1 - Life On Earth?
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01. G.O.D. 6:36
02. Waves 5:44
03. Gone Wrong 7:41
04. Lunar Escape 6:01
05. Dead End 6:48



























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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2017 at 06:17
^ On our chart. Thanks.
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O666 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2017 at 06:44
I suggested them 2-3 years earlier (I Guess!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2017 at 06:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2017 at 15:56
^ Yep I've found your suggestion in PF and added into Neo chart. Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2017 at 02:24
I checked it yesterday. You right Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2017 at 02:23
Sorry rejected in Neo and Crossover Teams.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2017 at 07:11
Perhaps fit to "Related" !!! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2017 at 11:10
The band has a relation to Prog musically, but I do not see it as fit for the Prog Related category. I guess the band was named after the Marillion song.

Prog-Related is not just intended for "proggy" material, but is intended for exceptional cases where the acts are considered important to a fuller understanding of the history of Prog. As the Emerald Lies albums are recent, I think you'd be hard pressed to make a strong case for its significance to the Prog movement/ scene.

I haven't found much info on the band, but looking at rateyourmusic http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/emerald_lies , I see that the band was formed in 1988 but the first album listed is from 2012. I wonder if their original live performance were more Prog, not that I'm saying that those would make them includable even if there are recordings out there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2017 at 07:31
i don't have any idea about "Prog Related". Its "Prog or Not" (IMO). I wrote my opinion about this band and I don't want to repeat it. 
Now I have a question about this band : Are they Prog? If yes , we can talking about their music sub-gen and if your answer is No , Its OK for me but I really like to know your(as Collabs or Team's Members) opinions and facts about it. 

thanks 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2017 at 08:51
I guess your opinion that you don't want to repeat is what you wrote at the ProgFreak site. If so, sharing your opinion at this site too can be useful (doubt it would be now). I would copy and paste it here, but since you don't want to repeat it, here is the link for people who may be interested (the sense of mystery certainly piqued my curiosity): http://progfreak.com/Emerald-Lies-163324.html

Perhaps I misunderstood you when you wrote "Perhaps fit to "Related" !!!" so my evaluation was misdirected. I thought you wanted it to be checked for Prog Related with that comment.

Speaking as a collab, musically I find it to be prog-related, a "Prog-lite" band, rather than Prog proper. Since it's been rejected by the Crossover and Neo Prog teams, I don't see this being added to PA based on their albums thus far. It has some heavy prog qualities, but I wouldn't expect it to added there.

All the best.
The first step on the road to wisdom is the recognition of your own cherry pie.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2017 at 10:22
Thanks Logan. 

Honestly , I forgot  my comment in PF and my opinion not changed about them till now.

Now about "Related" : IMO they are Xover or Neo Prog band. Its not important that I like them or not , we are talking about Prog or Not in this section of forum. I want to know why they rejected . I know , you don't have enough time to discuss people about suggestions .

IMHO , when one band "Rejected" from Xover team , this mean they Rejected from P.A. and they don't have a chance to be in another genre except "Prog Related".

Thanks for your time and I appreciated.


Edited by O666 - May 15 2017 at 10:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2017 at 12:39
I know I'm saying more than you asked for, but hopefully parts of this post will sort of be helpful.

Of course in "Suggest New Bands and Artists" acts are considered for all categories, including Prog Related.

As for why this was dismissed for Neo-Prog (move votes) and rejected for Crossover, Neo-Prog voted move to Crossover as they thought it wrong for Neo-Prog but thought it might have a chance in Crossover, and in Crossover it was rejected due to concerns that it was not Prog enough.   I'd say that it's borderline, and I'm actually not sure how I would have voted were I on a Prog-category team.

It was actually a split vote on Crossover, which is no secret as the votes are evident on the ProgFreak chart, so to me that, plus the fact that it got a move rather than a flat out reject vote means that it has merits.

Since Neo-Prog, Crossover, and Prog-Related is off the table, the only other option would be if it could fit another category, the band releases a new album so that it can be re-evaluated, or in some cases, a team changes their mind later on for whatever reason. Sometimes this is because team members change, more samples are made available, a stronger case is built, or the category parameters have expanded etc. There are bands/artists that had been rejected for a category which were later admitted to that same category even without new material (but maybe more old material was made available that changed minds). In such cases when a band was formerly rejected -- barring new material which may warrant a fresh evaluation -- but is later evaluation, it often comes under the "controversial" guidelines, which means that the team must unanimously vote yes for inclusion.

It does get complicated because team sizes vary at different times, sometimes it just takes one no vote to reject a band, as in the case of Emerald Lies judging by the ProgFreak chart, and at other times it takes more no votes to reject an artist.

As for team members not expressing their reasons, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I liked to share my thoughts in the suggestion threads when on the Eclectic team, and share the reasons for a decision, and I liked to be in discussion with the suggestors in the threads and wanted to know their opinions and take those into account (I'm here for the social part since I like discussion with people here), but that can be too time-consuming for some, and in some cases it's led to a lot of arguing and complaining, which can be disheartening to team members who are volunteering their time and have a lot of suggestions on their plates. There have been cases of suggestors getting angry about rejections, and times when team members have given their reasons publicly and the suggester instead of thanking them for their time and moving on has become belligerent with the people who took the time to give the reasons.
The first step on the road to wisdom is the recognition of your own cherry pie.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2017 at 14:53
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I know I'm saying more than you asked for, but hopefully parts of this post will sort of be helpful.

Of course in "Suggest New Bands and Artists" acts are considered for all categories, including Prog Related.

As for why this was dismissed for Neo-Prog (move votes) and rejected for Crossover, Neo-Prog voted move to Crossover as they thought it wrong for Neo-Prog but thought it might have a chance in Crossover, and in Crossover it was rejected due to concerns that it was not Prog enough.   I'd say that it's borderline, and I'm actually not sure how I would have voted were I on a Prog-category team.

It was actually a split vote on Crossover, which is no secret as the votes are evident on the ProgFreak chart, so to me that, plus the fact that it got a move rather than a flat out reject vote means that it has merits.

Since Neo-Prog, Crossover, and Prog-Related is off the table, the only other option would be if it could fit another category, the band releases a new album so that it can be re-evaluated, or in some cases, a team changes their mind later on for whatever reason. Sometimes this is because team members change, more samples are made available, a stronger case is built, or the category parameters have expanded etc. There are bands/artists that had been rejected for a category which were later admitted to that same category even without new material (but maybe more old material was made available that changed minds). In such cases when a band was formerly rejected -- barring new material which may warrant a fresh evaluation -- but is later evaluation, it often comes under the "controversial" guidelines, which means that the team must unanimously vote yes for inclusion.

It does get complicated because team sizes vary at different times, sometimes it just takes one no vote to reject a band, as in the case of Emerald Lies judging by the ProgFreak chart, and at other times it takes more no votes to reject an artist.

As for team members not expressing their reasons, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I liked to share my thoughts in the suggestion threads when on the Eclectic team, and share the reasons for a decision, and I liked to be in discussion with the suggestors in the threads and wanted to know their opinions and take those into account (I'm here for the social part since I like discussion with people here), but that can be too time-consuming for some, and in some cases it's led to a lot of arguing and complaining, which can be disheartening to team members who are volunteering their time and have a lot of suggestions on their plates. There have been cases of suggestors getting angry about rejections, and times when team members have given their reasons publicly and the suggester instead of thanking them for their time and moving on has become belligerent with the people who took the time to give the reasons.


And as someone who had absolutely nothing to do with the suggestion, or evaluation, let me say that this is a mighty fine explanation of events, and circumstances
In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2017 at 08:18
100% Agree with lazland. Thanks greg 
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