Has the definition of prog changed at some point? |
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Author | |||
Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
Posted: February 16 2017 at 14:32 | ||
I don't think so, it's just there wasn't really a widespread definition of the term to being with. And even if there was, you'd still have people saying whatever their favorite band was is prog because they like prog. :p
|
|||
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 16198 |
Posted: February 16 2017 at 15:59 | ||
Maybe it's just that these days bands fit into more than one category. For example it seems possible(and apparently has already happened) that a band can be labelled as indie, alternative, progressive, psychedelic and experimental. I noticed that for their wikipedia entry the band Muse has about four or five different categories including prog.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - February 17 2017 at 14:50 |
|||
Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12608 |
Posted: February 16 2017 at 21:25 | ||
I guess it was even more ambiguous, and therefore, could include more music in the 70's... at least in the early 70's. I think there was something in a Deep Purple booklet in which one of them reffered to themselves as prog... or at least put themselves among prog bands, which wouldn't be considered so now (I guess most would agree Deep Purple had some prog elements... at least sometimes, but to go as far as consider them prog...)
|
|||
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19618 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 03:37 | ||
I'm not surprised at calling stuff like Queen as symphonic Rock in the NL, given the country's general liking for symphonic prog.... However, was Supersister called symphonic rock?? most likely not. When I grew up in Toronto in the 70's, all these bands were called Art Rock... This until I +/- stopped buying pop-rock albums around 83 or so (I'd say Love Over Gold was the last one) and veered into jazzy lands (Bitches Brew and Mahavishnu and Coltrane) until roughly 91 and TBH, I'd never heard of Prog Rock until the early 90's when I came back to Europe (nor had I heard of neo-prog to describe Marillion or IQ before that as well , BTW). =========== But you wouldn't believe the fights we had in the fiorum and behind the scenes to get bands like Procol Harum or Traffic included as prog rock. I was even insulted by some members (notably a Polish dude) because I brought "that jazz sh*t" into what they thought was the symphonic/progressive database Sooooo, I'd say that the definition of "prog" kind of really came to be in the 90's, with those new bands' creations |
|||
hellogoodbye
Forum Senior Member VIP member Joined: August 29 2011 Location: Troy Status: Offline Points: 7251 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 03:53 | ||
Before meeting you, guys, I did not know that the majority of the music which I listened to was progressive.
|
|||
SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20503 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 04:07 | ||
At the risk of throwing gas on the fire () , prog definitions have been partly altered by PA's inclusion of the myriad sub genres. I for one, don't consider artists like Zappa to be prog. Futuristic, beyond the pale, inventive? Absolutely! But Zappa, RIO, and whatever the hell Capt. Beefheart is, is not prog in my book! If others enjoy them, then more power to them. Life is short and musical enjoyment people receive from these artists is fine with me. But when someone mentions the word prog to me, these artists never come immediately to my mind.
|
|||
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|||
Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 05:59 | ||
The terms "progressive" and "prog" were in use before that. Procol Harum, Pink Floyd and a few other bands were being described in those terms in 1967 to my knowledge. |
|||
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
|
|||
Replayer
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 04 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 356 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 09:08 | ||
I think you're overanalyzing my tongue-in-cheek remark. I meant to convey that the definition of progressive rock has always evolved by necessity, as if it didn't, then the music would have to have the same style as during the genesis of the prog movement and I chose the release date is generally accepted to be the first fully progressive rock album as the arbitrary cut-off for my comment.
|
|||
Kepler62
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2017 Location: Fort Erie Status: Offline Points: 501 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 10:18 | ||
All these made up sub genres of all styles of music have muddled everything. Older musc was categorized by eras whereas the more modern music became there were more deviations, amalgamations and mutations. I tend to like the era of progressive rock that had elves, sky wizards, journeys through time and space, fantasy etc. In other words, the 1969-76 era. Not much after that that really had anything to do with how it all started. It just seemed to have run it's course by the mid seventies. So there's no real definition of Prog.
|
|||
Replayer
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 04 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 356 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 11:15 | ||
I think you may be overstating the influence of fantasy and science fiction on prog. There was a thread a year ago called Dragons in Prog Rock and the general consensus was that fantasy and sci-fi themes were more prevalent in hard rock and metal. Below is a reply from the thread:
|
|||
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17498 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 11:25 | ||
I always considered Zappa to be Comedic Prog.......which is not prog. I only like Capt Beefheart for their album covers.
|
|||
|
|||
Kepler62
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2017 Location: Fort Erie Status: Offline Points: 501 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 11:54 | ||
I'm going to attempt the impossible here so bear with me :
Progressive Rock Defn' 1. Classical music played with rock instrumentation & volume 2. Rock music with complex harmonies & structure. 3. Overblown , self-indulgent, pretentious, elitist boring music Progressive rock was a form of music originating in the UK that came into vogue starting in the late sixties lasting until roughly the mid-seventies. It featured ambitious instrumentation and extended compositions that often followed the pardigms of classical forms with serious lyrics inspired by science fiction & fantasy themes as well as literary sources. The Beatles, The Moody Blues and The Nice foreshadowed the movement in the late sixties but it wasn't until 1969 with the release of King Crimson's In The Court Of The Crimson King that other rock bands started to surface employing more complex musical structures that drew from classical, jazz and traditional styles. By the late 1970s Progrock had all but run out of steam both creatively and commercially being overrun by disco, punk and harder rocking arena bands.Many progrock bands were labelled as dinosaur bands in the press and were either forced to update their musical directions or fall victim to the times. Nonetheless other bands have surfaced over the years, picking up where the earlier bands left off while some of the older bands soldiered on through adversity but the genre never regained it's glories of the early seventies Edited by Kepler62 - February 17 2017 at 11:55 |
|||
Kingsnake
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2006 Location: Rockpommelland Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 12:19 | ||
On the matter of fantasy-lyrics, a lot of proggers were fans of Tolkien.
Camel (The White Rider), BJH (Galadriel) and probably even more referred to Tolkien. Also we have stuff like The Mandalaband, Jon Anderson solo, etc. But my guess is that the real swords & dragons themed lyrics canbe found in proto-metal, heavy metal and power metal (Uriah Heep, Rainbow, Iron Maiden and so on)
|
|||
SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20503 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 12:50 | ||
|
|||
SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20503 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 12:52 | ||
|
|||
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 16198 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 14:44 | ||
Actually no, the term "prog" was not used in the late sixties. It was not used until the late eighties. I remember I had a mixed tape labelled "Mike's mixed prog tape." That was in the mid 90's. "Prog rock" may have been used in the seventies but "prog" by itself like I said came later. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prog
|
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 16198 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 14:47 | ||
I don't think these old definitions which applied to seventies bands still apply anymore. That definition still counts for some stuff especially maybe the symphonic prog stuff but I think there's a lot of bands who are more song oriented these days who don't follow all the old rules. That was the point of this thread. I guess not everyone sees it that way and as Jethro Tull might say some people are still living in the past. I think these days they are more like guidelines and not hard and fast rules. The other possibility is that a lot of the newer bands are mislabeled as prog when they really aren't. Maybe they have a few prog elements but really aren't prog. Or maybe just one or two songs that would qualify and the rest not so much.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - February 17 2017 at 14:49 |
|||
zravkapt
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6446 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 15:06 | ||
What is prog?
|
|||
Magma America Great Make Again
|
|||
SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20503 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 15:25 | ||
|
|||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64353 |
Posted: February 17 2017 at 15:36 | ||
So will I. |
|||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|||
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |