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When was Genesis officially not prog?

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Pinkyesgenesistull View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 04 2017 at 11:39
A lot of people tend to think that its when the album And Then There Were Three but I really dont know. To me that album still is a little bit progressive. Maybe Duke? I honestly dont know what do you guys think?

Edited by Pinkyesgenesistull - May 04 2017 at 11:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 12:07
What is your definition of "prog"? To me all their albums have some prog elements.....Duke has a lot with Behind the Lines, Duchess and the Duke suite.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 13:39
In my opinion based on what I have read online from other people the consensus seems to be they made the transition to pop around the time of Abacab. I think most of that is because most people don't like Abacab though. In my opinion Abacab isn't that much more poppy over all than Duke. Both have prog and pop on them in seemingly equal amounts(imo). I think maybe because Abacab came out around the time PC's solo career started had something to do with it though. I think you'll find differing opinions on this but I think it's safe to say it was a gradual transition regardless. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 14:49
January 5, 1981

The day "In The Air Tonight" was released as a single, propelling Collins to the top of the charts and putting Prog in his rear view window. So in terms of Genesis, everything up through Duke is Prog - everything after is not. Not that Abacab and Shapes are bad records. They aren't. They're just not progressive rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 14:58
Define officially.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 16:55
They always were prog. Every album has strong prog elements in most songs, but after Wind and Wuthering, those elements became less interesting and more commercial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 17:19
Their very first album of course. From Genesis To Revelation showed that they were really a pop band all along. Prog was just a slight detour to a more successful form of pop which began on Duke i believe and then took full form on Abacab.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 19:59
Even at their Philliest, they had an extended number or two on every album to keep the prog embers glowing.....no matter how gauche some of their fluff albums got, there was always a Fading Light or Domino to provide at least a semblance of prog.  I personally dig the hell out of parts of Abacab, especially the percussion sound Phil took from the Melt sessions and milked for a few Genesis sides.

Genesis will always be a prog band....prog pop may not be everyone's cup o' tea, and Phil's schtick gets old awfully fast, but the Duke thru Dance albums are full of pockets of proggy pop that keep me going back to those records when I need a sugar fix.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 21:05
I would say it was a transition, and it was never fully completed. Perhaps even since Gabriel left there were already some very poppy (and even good) songs. I guess even more so, since before Gabriel left they already were trying to do some poppy stuff. Of course, once Hackett left, the pop side took more prominence, but even "And then there were Three" has some very strong prog elements... that one's got have some the most keyboard driven songs, and very prog heavy. After that one, I guess the proggy songs became rather the fewer ones, unlike before that the pop songs were the exceptions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 22:33
When I was buying the records when they were coming out, having started around Trick of the Tail (but my library had Trespass so I took that out too), I thought they were all OK up to Abacab.  Listening back now, my cut-off point is ATTWT.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freyacat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2017 at 22:49
"The Brazilian" still rates as one of the greatest prog instrumentals ever.  I cannot deny Genesis their prog credentials, even when they start making successful pop songs.

However, my perception is skewed, because I fell in love with Genesis, Yes, Rush, and Asia in the 80's, and only later worked my way back to the mother lode.  What I perceived back then was that these musicians, working within the language of 80's New Wave synth pop, were still doing something much more special and significant than their contemporaries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 03:50
I stopped buying after Duke based on the perception that they were no longer 'prog' - but even after they kept pulling things out of their creative hat which made me stop and think.  I did go to see them on the 'Invisible Touch' tour but I can honestly say I only really enjoyed 'In the Cage' and 'Unquiet Slumbers...' 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 05:10
This reminds me of the Hof inducting rappers. Buy a rap album, ' cos it's rock, the HoF says so. Uneducated rock listeners (still a few) might wonder wtf?

"Don't buy a Genesis album 'cos they're pop. No wait, that one's ok, it's prog. No, not that one, yes, ok, that one's, um.... prog;".... (explanation as to what it's not rather than what it is) and the fan runs off and gets something else anyway.

Still prog; they just learned how to write songs rather than not and stick unfinished / unfinishable? ideas together, make a meal of it and call it Supper's Ready. Having said that the band's style changed; very melodic and the mysterious nature of Genesis music became absent at times.

This genre redefinition thing is a bit like Supper's Ready, a constant work of works in progress and no consensus will be reached.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 05:55
Genesis (shapes) was the first Genesis album I would classify as 'pop'

I would say ATTWT was the last prog rock album. Duke was 'prog related' After Duke they became a soft rock/pop/daytime radio middle of the road band, who wrote the occasional interesting song.

IMO

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 06:49
'Officially not Prog' is no more an exact science than considering when someone is 'officially middle aged?'Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Replayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 07:33
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

This reminds me of the Hof inducting rappers. Buy a rap album, ' cos it's rock, the HoF says so.

I never knew David Hasselhoff was an arbiter of musical taste LOL

Speaking of later Genesis albums that had proggy moments, Shapes had Home by the Sea and Second Home by the Sea, which I quite enjoy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 08:01
They started leaning to a more pop-commercial type of music with "And Then They Were Three", which gradually became more and more the signature of the band. By the time "Abacab" came out, the pop influences were dominating their sound, though there were some elements of progressiveness in a few songs.

Edited by Manuel - May 05 2017 at 08:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TerLJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 09:58
Probably about the time they started using the drum machine to write songs.  Still love 'em though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larkstongue41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 13:09
80% of The Lamb is pop to me. Still a great album though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Upbeat Tango Monday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2017 at 14:07
Commercial this, commercial that. Every band wants to sell records.
As a matter of fact, Genesis "sold out" when they started doing prog, since it was the next big thing...and that's ok.
That said, if we leave From Genesis to Revelation and Calling All Stations behind (maybe), every record has proggy moments, Dodo/Lurker, The Brazilian and Fading Lights, for instance.
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