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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 14734
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Posted: June 21 2017 at 10:55 |
Thandrus wrote:
Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Just to give a glimpse into the so-called "failed" experiment, it should be recognized that 720 albums that qualify as prog rock including metal and all the subgenres are in the top 10,000 albums of all time as rated by users on Rate Your Music. That is 13.9% of the top 10,000 albums!
I think whoever wrote this article was a.... ROBOT!!! Someone pull his plug |
Pardon my math but isn't that only 7.2%? Still a surprisingly high number, though. |
First 6 spots in RYM all-time favourites are occupied by albums that are tagged either prog-rock or art-rock.
Plus:
1) RYM makes a rather questionable distinction between prog-rock and art-rock (most of the bands labeled art-rock there are either present or in fact, eligible for inclusion to PA)
2) Jazz-rock / fusion is not included as prog-rock subgenre. Neither is space rock, raga rock, progressive folk, progressive electronic, post-rock, math-rock etc.
3) Many of the artists that could count as crossover or heavy prog here are reclassified as genres not belonging to progressive rock.
So in my estimate, the "all-time Top-score" of progressive rock spectrum is on RYM somewhere about, or a bit above 20%.
It is consistent with early RYM Top-40 statistics, where albums that could be considered prog by PA occupy somewhere between 15-22% on average each year. Plus consider that the scores there are rating number-weighted (that means the higher number of ratings might put a lower-rated album a bit above the higher-rated ones). so I think it's enough of a case for progressive music. | So true. I just wanted to point out the pure prog but if you add all the related art rock that is on PA the list is much longer. Considering these aresults ratings based on users, NOT corporate hacks, my opinion is that prog not only is a successful experiment but is in it for the long haul and 100 years from now will be more relevant than the lower forms of music of recent decades
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 373
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Posted: June 21 2017 at 13:57 |
Oh dear, or rather, so what? A right-wing rag lampooning a creative music that expresses progressive ideas. Whom does that surprise? What is there to talk about? Sure, some things went wrong in mid-70s prog, in Rush's words, "So much style without substance, so much stuff without style". The thing had become overblown and pretentious, with white elephants such as ELP's Works; and it is part of the nature of popular culture that once the mainstream goes too far in one direction, opposition movements form. Like how grunge and britpop kicked the butt of hairspray metal in the early 90s (only that hairspray metal was really as corny as it seemed and was alleged to be).
As for the question whether the prog "experiment" failed or succeeded, IMHO it succeeded, even if it seemed like a failure back in '77. It returned in a renewed form, and is alive today - alive not in the sense of retromania digging out old stuff, but in the sense of actually continuing putting out good new stuff. Of course, not the old fogeys who merely repeat themselves, but fresh new bands, often consisting of people who hadn't even been born when classic prog went out of fashion.
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... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 6763
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Posted: June 21 2017 at 14:51 |
WeepingElf wrote:
Oh dear, or rather, so what? A right-wing rag lampooning a creative music that expresses progressive ideas. Whom does that surprise? What is there to talk about? Sure, some things went wrong in mid-70s prog, in Rush's words, "So much style without substance, so much stuff without style". The thing had become overblown and pretentious, with white elephants such as ELP's Works; and it is part of the nature of popular culture that once the mainstream goes too far in one direction, opposition movements form. Like how grunge and britpop kicked the butt of hairspray metal in the early 90s (only that hairspray metal was really as corny as it seemed and was alleged to be).
As for the question whether the prog "experiment" failed or succeeded, IMHO it succeeded, even if it seemed like a failure back in '77. It returned in a renewed form, and is alive today - alive not in the sense of retromania digging out old stuff, but in the sense of actually continuing putting out good new stuff. Of course, not the old fogeys who merely repeat themselves, but fresh new bands, often consisting of people who hadn't even been born when classic prog went out of fashion.
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Nice post, thanks!
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 6763
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Posted: June 21 2017 at 14:52 |
cstack3 wrote:
WeepingElf wrote:
Oh dear, or rather, so what? A right-wing rag lampooning a creative music that expresses progressive ideas. Whom does that surprise? What is there to talk about? Sure, some things went wrong in mid-70s prog, in Rush's words, "So much style without substance, so much stuff without style". The thing had become overblown and pretentious, with white elephants such as ELP's Works; and it is part of the nature of popular culture that once the mainstream goes too far in one direction, opposition movements form. Like how grunge and britpop kicked the butt of hairspray metal in the early 90s (only that hairspray metal was really as corny as it seemed and was alleged to be).
As for the question whether the prog "experiment" failed or succeeded, IMHO it succeeded, even if it seemed like a failure back in '77. It returned in a renewed form, and is alive today - alive not in the sense of retromania digging out old stuff, but in the sense of actually continuing putting out good new stuff. Of course, not the old fogeys who merely repeat themselves, but fresh new bands, often consisting of people who hadn't even been born when classic prog went out of fashion.
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Nice post, thanks! p.s. I AM NOT A ROBOT!! I'M A FREE MAN!! |
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Thandrus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 05 2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 402
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Posted: June 21 2017 at 16:08 |
Ridiculousness of prog-related content can be judged with one not-so-subtle point: how is author's insight only limited to UK/US music and scenes. Especially in this decade where music publishing / streaming goes more and more online, exposing music all over the world.
Progressive rock was perhaps the first ever modern musical style that permeated all over the world to such a degree that quantity of the "overseas" material was much bigger than UK/US musical material. Limiting yourself with talking about UK and US currents in progressive music and blindly extrapolating it to the whole world is just plainly invalid.
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 373
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Posted: June 22 2017 at 14:48 |
Prog did not (yet) become the "classical music of the future" as which it was sometimes hailed in its heyday. But it definitely fared better than serialism, which was considered the "classical music of the future" in its time to the point that one of its most influential composers, Anton Webern, said in 1945, "fifty years from now, children will sing 12-tone series". Nothing like that ever happened - serialism can indeed be considered a failed experiment, and was superseded by minimalism in the 1960s. Today, we have serialism performed by specialized ensembles to specialized audiences at specialized festivals, while minimalism, modern jazz and prog are quite popular, even if not mainstream. (Well, most people do not really care for sophisticated music at all!) The race for the "classical music of the future" is not run yet, but I feel as if of the three mentioned above, prog appears to be the most healthy, but I am certainly biased.
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... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14124
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Posted: June 23 2017 at 09:06 |
Ultimately such stuff may help prog because some people may become curious and may want to form their own opinion. Bad press is often better than no press.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20506
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Posted: June 23 2017 at 09:29 |
^This is true. If prog wasn't trashed, the outside world wouldn't talk about it at all.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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2dogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2011
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 705
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Posted: June 24 2017 at 07:43 |
No subject for which a TV programme exists will ever be forgotten .
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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette
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MaxnEmmy
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 31 2016
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 09:44 |
Mass appeal never attained, except, to a limited degree, notable bands like Yes, Rush and of course Pink Floyd. I cancelled Sirus XM because the don't play any prog rock or jazz fusion. I got tired of the commercial crap they constantly spew out of their "so called" classic vinyl.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 6763
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 10:16 |
MaxnEmmy wrote:
Mass appeal never attained, except, to a limited degree, notable bands like Yes, Rush and of course Pink Floyd. I cancelled Sirus XM because the don't play any prog rock or jazz fusion. I got tired of the commercial crap they constantly spew out of their "so called" classic vinyl. |
I'll disagree. Prog was ever-present on AM radio in the US back in the early & mid-1970s, with singles by Yes (Roundabout), ELP (From The Beginning), Focus (Hocus Pocus) and others. It was the "serious" music of the day, in contrast to light fluff from Jackson 5, Archies and many others.
Certain bands that fit into the prog category were mega stars - particularly Steely Dan. Prog related bands such as Deep Purple were also huge commercial hits.
Prog is still evolving....when Kanye West ripped off King Crimson's ITCOTCK for his song "Power," I wish Bob Fripp had formed an alliance with him, to get Bob and his music/guitar playing more exposure. Kanye rapping over Soundscapes might have been interesting.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 10:42 |
The hell it is!
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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MaxnEmmy
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 31 2016
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 10:44 |
The 1970's was the golden age for progressive rock music, no argument there. Today, the younger people listen to "hip and drip" or whatever you want to call it.
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Raccoon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2012
Location: 444 Grove St RZ
Status: Offline
Points: 763
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 14:38 |
MaxnEmmy wrote:
Mass appeal never attained, except, to a limited degree, notable bands like Yes, Rush and of course Pink Floyd. I cancelled Sirus XM because the don't play any prog rock or jazz fusion. I got tired of the commercial crap they constantly spew out of their "so called" classic vinyl. |
It was because of Sirius XM Deep Tracks that I discovered Gypsy's album In The Garden, as they played the full As Far As You Can See, but besides that monument, it's pretty standard radio. No reason to pay a premium for it.
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1409
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 17:50 |
Prog Archives: A noble, but....
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: July 02 2017 at 07:43 |
Hardly. Still going on strong.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Argo2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2017
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 4457
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Posted: July 31 2017 at 11:42 |
This is the typical "rock and roll is only suppose to be.....( fill in the blank)" Simple 3 chord songs in 4/4 time with out and real depth. it's the same crap critics have been spinning for 40 years now.Fortunately prog fans know better.
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