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Do believe that females are progressive musicians?

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Marissaelene View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 27 2017 at 16:07
Of course not...I have read your comments from Googling...so many men on here or even women think that this is a man's genre. 

I arrange music on over twenty instruments...compose Baroque music, progressive rock, neo-classical music, psychedelic folk/ rock, and I play and write real jazz not jazz standards. I also write some avant garde music and film scores. I work with electronic and acoustic instruments of all kinds.

I also do not sing covers.

I also sing...

I play all my instruments on my records...because I want women to play on my music and men, not just men
Women would never answer my ads not because women have no talent. I do not need men to help me create quality music. 
I refuse to have men back me up...when I do not need them to.

I arrange music...and engineer all my music...

My music is complicated and sometimes long but writing lengthy music is not the goal..

Are there females who are good progressive rock musicians who do not need all male bands to back them up?

Sure..that is why they do not speak out ...that is why they are obscure and unknown...the kinds of women who are supported love to play male cover songs. I refuse to do that when I can compose quality music and support female composers rather than play male cover songs to promote male domination and male pride. I believe that I should support female composers who do not have all male back up ONLY...and I do support men but they are getting a lot more support in serious music genres. 

I am not a feminist...I believe in equality....however, I refuse to have men play for me when I can play numbers of instruments well and compose my music...

The way men refuse to acknowledge or hire women in this genre..or even give them record deals if they do not have an all male band...

I am not unusual...I believe that many women have been falling through the cracks due the kind of oppressive culture we have...

I do karate kicks too....

look out ...you may delete this but who cares ahahahha....

I am not allowed to promote myself or I will kicked off...only men are allowed to be seen via the net and off

Women can only be seen with all male band...ahahhah  Men also feel that it is appropriate to harass women in gangs to tell them that they should be in the kitchen with babies. Highly evolved humans think that this kind of thinking is archaic. 

Marissa Elene Nadieja


Edited by Marissaelene - December 27 2017 at 16:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote altaeria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 16:12

So what are you implying?  

Stop beating around..... oh, never mind.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larkstongue41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 16:20
?????????????????????????????????????????


You should not refuse to have males playing your music if you truly believe in equality. I'll leave it at that...
"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DamoXt7942 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 16:20
Love quite a few female progressive combos with incredible technique and sensitivity.

There is no difference amongst superb acts, regardless of gender. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marissaelene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 17:21
It did not take you two seconds to ban me, block me and come on my youtube channel to vote me down because I am a female composer in the progressive rock genre etc...etc...etc...

Why not warn women ahead of time that they are not allowed to say that are in this genre...without a male band?

I am not against having men playing for me, I do not "need" them to play anything for me..I am a composer...

an arranger...for over 20 instruments..that is why you immediately came to my channel to put me down and vote my videos down

There was no reason to lock the topic that I posted..I did not say that I did not want men to play for me...I said that I do not need men to play any instruments on my albums or arrangements...

Composers do not need help from bands...really they don't.. You will claim that I am imagining some of you just coming to my youtube channel to vote my videos down on purpose. But it is o.k to not hire female arrangers, producers, drummers, bassist, writers..guitarist...keyboardist. (sarcasm).etc...etc...it is o.k to have NO women in the prog....who are competent and just men with men...with only one female singing in a band at most...you think that is acceptable...it is NOT acceptable..I compose film scores, I compose modern classical music, I am a jazz musician who does not play covers or standards, I also write avant garde music, write progressive rock music/ psychedelic rock and folk, neo-baroque music, medieval music in the modern sense and world music fusion...I play numbers of instruments...in a competent way....do I need men? No....
Do composers need bands? No....

Marissa Elene Nadieja



Edited by Marissaelene - December 27 2017 at 17:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 17:35
I hear you.   You're largely correct and it sucks.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evolver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 17:40
Would you like to post a link to your youtube channel, so we can listen to some of your music.  I doubt anyone here at this site banned you, or voted you down.

And I presume that your other thread was locked because it sounds like trolling.  We have plenty of open minded members who wouldn't mind having a discussion with you, without the hostility of your first two posts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 17:41
I'm surprised your other thread got locked, it didn't seem to me that you had broken any site rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marissaelene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 17:49
The internet is also not friendly towards women, and I have been ganged stalked by mostly men for a long time. This happens to a lot of women, also they are not seen as composers. 
Not nearly as many men are being stalked and threatened on the internet as women either...The internet is not female friendly....groups of men congregate to create hostile environments towards women...
I read comments and threads on this forum about the lack of women in the genre of prog rock...and it is laughable how men perceive women as lazy, disinterested in serious things or music....

The entertainment industry is not a realistic depiction of what kind of talent  or minds that really exist in the world...
Women are suppose to need all male bands or all male accompaniment in every genre...
This is seen as acceptable...It is o.k for men to go it alone, but not women...
I have tried to support women in music, but only women who are very empowered would not want an all male back up band...It is healthy to be inclusive..
I do not do music to prove that I am empowered though...I am just into music...

But it is very sad, that we have a music industry that looks down upon women in a major way and a society that thinks very little of women in general...

Yet, our culture thinks that we are progressive and forward thinking but we are not....
I am...
The music industry has created a hostile environment for women...because when you have women being backed continually by all male bands, it speak volumes to the world as to what role in society women must take....What people in general in that industry think of the competency level of women ...Almost all bands in that industry have all male bands backing one woman...that is a bit unbalanced...a pervasive attitude that women are incompetent or less competent or in need of help...That is really not progressive thinking...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larkstongue41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 17:58
Why don't you appreciate the fact that a lot of women are at the FRONT of bands instead of whining about males being the back-up band? There are more males playing traditional rock n' roll instruments than females (which does not mean they are better at it in any way) so it's only normal that the male gender is more represented among rock musicians. I don't mean to be offensive but it seems to me like you're delusional about this whole thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 18:02
Originally posted by Marissaelene Marissaelene wrote:

The internet is also not friendly towards women, and I have been ganged stalked by mostly men for a long time. This happens to a lot of women, also they are not seen as composers. 
Not nearly as many men are being stalked and threatened on the internet as women either...The internet is not female friendly....groups of men congregate to create hostile environments towards women...

Oh internet forums are jungles, and it happens to a lot of men too.   In fact on a male-dominated site it happens mostly to men.   I've had many fistfights at other sites, got banned from one for speaking my mind.   You'll find that you are quite welcome here as long as you don't assume too much about the members. 

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 18:16
Hi Marissaelene,

First of all, you seem to have some sort of impression that most or many or whatever of us have this hang up about women performing progressive music.

I would simply like to state that it isn't true at all. From my experience, most women simply are not interested in it (composing it that is). It tends to be more abstract and by nature that is unfortunately a male characteric of perception. I don't find that men are preventing women from participating in prog, it's just that women tend not to gravitate towards it. Not a good or a bad thing, just a "that's what's happnin' thang."

Of course there are exceptions to every generalisation (and yes i know some) but if any female human being wishes to create some beautiful music that everyone can enjoy, i can't think of a single person who would object to that. Maybe i live in a bubble?

Please share any info here if you have any cool music that needs more ears. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 19:25
There are women prog composers, musicians etc but they are in the minority. There are however a good number of prog women singers(especially in prog metal)but for whatever reason women musicians just don't get into prog. I'm not saying it's right but if you look at the gender ratio as far as fans go it sort of makes sense. I would guess that at least eighty percent of prog fans are male and even if you count female singers as musicians it's probably just as low if not lower. There was this one young woman named Nell(I forget her last name)who played all her own instruments and recorded an album entirely by herself. She was influenced by Yes, Nektar, Gentle Giant and the Flaming Lips if I'm not mistaken. So yes, they are out there but they are few and far between unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marissaelene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 20:28
They are not the minority...they do not exist in the commercial world...due to a pervasive attitude are weaker, smaller, less intelligent and less worthy of money or praise.

Female composers like myself are not the minority. These women probably do not have money for expensive...etc..and tons of equipment...
There are female Chopins, Female Beethovens..and women who are amazing composers in Asian music etc..eastern music etc...
Hedy Lamarr invented Wi Fi...and other inventions...she was a movie star due to not having men taking her seriously in the area of engineering and inventions. When she was almost dead, they gave her a small plague to thank her for patent. 
It is not very intelligent to think that women are smaller, weaker, less competent, less creative, less motivated, and therefore less worthy of praise outside of cooking a four course meal or cleaning the toilet. 
I buy records from some Asian women who are female composers..etc...The music industry creates an illusion that serious female composers and prog rock musicians who are female in the minority...They have reinforced their illusions with the creation of their ideology that women are less competent...Some men think women can't cook as well as men either, since most chefs are men who are making the most money...But the images that we see everyday of men dominating music has created an illusion that they are more talented..and much more motivated and/ or disciplined....or that the more you rock out the more masculine you are ...or the longer your piece of music and the more instruments the better you are.....pomposity is what exists...I met a man once who claimed that women were way behind men in everything due to our culture and that they will never be on the same level as men in anything. Men have a really negative attitude about women in general in terms of thinking of them in high regard...and also women just constantly praise men and put them pedestals...it is part of our culture...the Trinity...the patriarch...This is the actual history of the world.. Women were not allowed to be actors in Ancient Greece...they were not in Olympics either...Men really believe that they are stronger, more intelligent, more competent, and more worthy of respect and praise ...they just do ...that is why there are so many men in Prog rock and almost no women...mostly just singing..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larkstongue41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 20:34
^ I don't know if NYC has suddenly gone back to the Middle Ages or something but otherwise I don't see why you feel the need to argue that females are as intelligent as men. I can assure you that most people who regularly frequent this forum are not bible beaters or primitively conservative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 20:37
Yes, of course they are in the minority otherwise they would be in the majority which obviously is not the case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 20:42
Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

^ I don't know if NYC has suddenly gone back to the Middle Ages or something but otherwise I don't see why you feel the need to argue that females are as intelligent as men. I can assure you that most people who regularly frequent this forum are not bible beaters or primitively conservative.

Exactly. Most of us are just stating opinions that reflect the reality rather than trying to manipulate it or control it. The reality isn't something we are always proud of but we can't deny it either and try to pretend the truth is something other than what it is.

If there are many women prog composers then great but if that's the case they should not hide. They should make themselves known. Esperanza Spalding isn't hiding in the closet is she? There are a lot of women musicians but maybe most of them don't discover prog. I'm not sure.

Anyway, I suggest checking out the band Bent Knee. They have two women in their band both of whom play an instrument(one also sings). Also, check out the all female Japanese band Ars Nova from the 90's. I'm sure there are other examples but these are the two that jump to mind immediately.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 27 2017 at 20:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 21:11
I wouldn't have anything against a more prominent role of women in bands and writing music... it's just that I don't know many of them. But if I hear anything I like, I would be most interested, and indeed I see no reason why they shouldn't be more represented.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 21:43
Originally posted by Marissaelene Marissaelene wrote:

They are not the minority...they do not exist in the commercial world...due to a pervasive attitude are weaker, smaller, less intelligent and less worthy of money or praise.

Female composers like myself are not the minority. These women probably do not have money for expensive...etc..and tons of equipment...
There are female Chopins, Female Beethovens..and women who are amazing composers in Asian music etc..eastern music etc...
Hedy Lamarr invented Wi Fi...and other inventions...she was a movie star due to not having men taking her seriously in the area of engineering and inventions. When she was almost dead, they gave her a small plague to thank her for patent. 
It is not very intelligent to think that women are smaller, weaker, less competent, less creative, less motivated, and therefore less worthy of praise outside of cooking a four course meal or cleaning the toilet. 
I buy records from some Asian women who are female composers..etc...The music industry creates an illusion that serious female composers and prog rock musicians who are female in the minority...They have reinforced their illusions with the creation of their ideology that women are less competent...Some men think women can't cook as well as men either, since most chefs are men who are making the most money...But the images that we see everyday of men dominating music has created an illusion that they are more talented..and much more motivated and/ or disciplined....or that the more you rock out the more masculine you are ...or the longer your piece of music and the more instruments the better you are.....pomposity is what exists...I met a man once who claimed that women were way behind men in everything due to our culture and that they will never be on the same level as men in anything. Men have a really negative attitude about women in general in terms of thinking of them in high regard...and also women just constantly praise men and put them pedestals...it is part of our culture...the Trinity...the patriarch...This is the actual history of the world.. Women were not allowed to be actors in Ancient Greece...they were not in Olympics either...Men really believe that they are stronger, more intelligent, more competent, and more worthy of respect and praise ...they just do ...that is why there are so many men in Prog rock and almost no women...mostly just singing..

I'm sorry but why are you complaining about all this? Instead of comparing women to a male dominated paradigm why don't you and other women simply go out and create your own alternative version of what you see fit to do?  Oprah Winfrey did it. Marie Curie did it. Nobody stopped them and nobody's stopping you or any other woman from achieving great things. My advice is just do and don't worry about what other people think. There are plenty of women virtuoso musicians but the thing i find they generally lack is the same drive to achieve financial success in the way that men do and because of that, they are usually subjected to the male paradigm of business practices. Until that changes at the root level then you and other women will be complaining about this until the end of time. In this day and age when it's so easy to be an independent artist on the internet, i would imagine the only thing stopping anybody from achieving great things is themselves. If you truly have composed great things, please share them here and i'm positive everyone would love to support your arts. If you're only here to complain about things, i'm afraid it's starting to get a little stale in this chat room.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2017 at 23:26
I think you Marissa started very important discussion. I started also same kind of, but didnīt manage put my words right way. I think the main point in that was, why still in 2000 there are so little women in prog? Yes, world have gone forward in this male/female thing, but I think itīs still menīs world. What proves is that "me too"-campaign. I have heard many actors, musicians that are female said, itīs still very common if you try to go forward in your career "you have to please so certain producers (that are men)". I think also itīs very naive to say "nobody in this forum doesnīt want to ban you". I think here are quite much people round the world and really all the men donīt think like I think. In Finland for example certain way thinking female politics get the most of the rubbish through the internet (well quite often also men who are feminists). And the reactions "donīt claim, just quietly do your thing" just shows that this is important issue the world really shouldnīt quiet. And if somebodyīs going to attack against me, I am not answering anymore, I think I have said what I have to say.
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