Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - YouTube vs Prog
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedYouTube vs Prog
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
miamiscot View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 3432 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: YouTube vs Prog
    Posted: January 25 2018 at 08:27
Similar to he Spotify debate, artists are getting the shaft here but what we're talking about are peanuts for most bands. Very sad state of affairs. Perhaps it's best to just put it all out there and hope for the best. I don't know the answer. But I know I don't like it...
Back to Top
tboyd1802 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 01 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2018 at 12:52
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by tboyd1802 tboyd1802 wrote:

Fripp is the label. He spent years fighting to wrest control of the King Crimson back catalog from the majors, and I believe that all of the back catalog now is published through DGM - his label. As for how he chooses to distribution and promote KC, who am I to second guess him. It's his music, published on his label, more power to him. 

As for KC no longer being relevant, as was mentioned in a previous comment, I beg to differ. They recently completed a significant tour of the US and are now embarking on a European tour. Reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, shows have been sold out. Shows include new interpretations of old standards, first-time live versions of classic studio repertoire, and new compositions. While they are definitely old geezers, they are not resting on their laurels. 


Woah, didn't know that Ouch

But what about the reviews? is Fripp afraid of bad publicity??

For those interested, here is the link to the DGM Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_Global_Mobile
He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
Back to Top
Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2018 at 10:04
This thread should be retitled "Fripp vs YouTube".

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Back to Top
Thatfabulousalien View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2018 at 00:59
Originally posted by tboyd1802 tboyd1802 wrote:

Fripp is the label. He spent years fighting to wrest control of the King Crimson back catalog from the majors, and I believe that all of the back catalog now is published through DGM - his label. As for how he chooses to distribution and promote KC, who am I to second guess him. It's his music, published on his label, more power to him. 

As for KC no longer being relevant, as was mentioned in a previous comment, I beg to differ. They recently completed a significant tour of the US and are now embarking on a European tour. Reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, shows have been sold out. Shows include new interpretations of old standards, first-time live versions of classic studio repertoire, and new compositions. While they are definitely old geezers, they are not resting on their laurels. 


Woah, didn't know that Ouch

But what about the reviews? is Fripp afraid of bad publicity??
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
Back to Top
Lewian View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2018 at 16:54
Fripp may be more annoyed about other people making money from his work without contributing much than about the fact that he personally doesn't make enough.
 
Back to Top
ForestFriend View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 23 2017
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 680 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2018 at 12:12
King Crimson does have a few of their songs already on their Youtube channel - while it might not be satisfying for some to listen to individual tracks rather than a full album, I do feel like they've picked some good tracks that might entice listeners to go out and get an album to hear what else they have to offer. Personally, I think if I've never heard King Crimson, listening to something like Starless or LTiA pt 1 (which are on their channel in full) would get me interested in buying an album or two. Then again, I feel like I get more of my money's worth if I buy an album with music I haven't heard before, rather than something I've pirated and already heard a million times.
My prog band - Boreal Kinship
Back to Top
twseel View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2018 at 08:53
It's just unfortunate I think, I don't listen to them anymore because it's just not worth the money if I can't even tell from recent memory how much I liked them. If I want to properly explore their discography it'll cost me 100-150€ instead of zero, so that really takes away most of the motivation. And still, if he uploads all those KC songs to YT on his own terms, wouldn't he still be making thousands in ad revenue? It would seem so, going off from their popularity and the income that other Youtubers gain... And it would probably only increase sales, younger listeners these days simply expect the possibility of streaming before buying, and then there's the loads of listeners who discover music primarily through clicking links and autoplay on Youtube, and if KC isn't there many people won't even know of their existence.
Back to Top
Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2018 at 03:08
Originally posted by tboyd1802 tboyd1802 wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by PanzerTarkus PanzerTarkus wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that, as far as King Crimson is concerned... They have virtually no presence on YouTube anymore (outside of live performances and bootlegs)? Is this due to the band, or the record label they're on? Why specifically them?


I've heard 2nd-hand that their label is very 'anal' towards youtube/youtubers. They where even having a witchhunt of people reviewing their albums about 2 years about (not that this stuff would even cross Fripps mind)

Fripp is the label. He spent years fighting to wrest control of the King Crimson back catalog from the majors, and I believe that all of the back catalog now is published through DGM - his label. As for how he chooses to distribution and promote KC, who am I to second guess him. It's his music, published on his label, more power to him. 

As for KC no longer being relevant, as was mentioned in a previous comment, I beg to differ. They recently completed a significant tour of the US and are now embarking on a European tour. Reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, shows have been sold out. Shows include new interpretations of old standards, first-time live versions of classic studio repertoire, and new compositions. While they are definitely old geezers, they are not resting on their laurels. 

No idea Fripp is the label. That's actually extremely legit, and something more artists should strive for. I believe Gentle Giant did the same (they are Alucard records).

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Back to Top
tboyd1802 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 01 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 21:22
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by PanzerTarkus PanzerTarkus wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that, as far as King Crimson is concerned... They have virtually no presence on YouTube anymore (outside of live performances and bootlegs)? Is this due to the band, or the record label they're on? Why specifically them?


I've heard 2nd-hand that their label is very 'anal' towards youtube/youtubers. They where even having a witchhunt of people reviewing their albums about 2 years about (not that this stuff would even cross Fripps mind)

Fripp is the label. He spent years fighting to wrest control of the King Crimson back catalog from the majors, and I believe that all of the back catalog now is published through DGM - his label. As for how he chooses to distribution and promote KC, who am I to second guess him. It's his music, published on his label, more power to him. 

As for KC no longer being relevant, as was mentioned in a previous comment, I beg to differ. They recently completed a significant tour of the US and are now embarking on a European tour. Reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, shows have been sold out. Shows include new interpretations of old standards, first-time live versions of classic studio repertoire, and new compositions. While they are definitely old geezers, they are not resting on their laurels. 
He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
Back to Top
Thatfabulousalien View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 20:09
Originally posted by PanzerTarkus PanzerTarkus wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that, as far as King Crimson is concerned... They have virtually no presence on YouTube anymore (outside of live performances and bootlegs)? Is this due to the band, or the record label they're on? Why specifically them?


I've heard 2nd-hand that their label is very 'anal' towards youtube/youtubers. They where even having a witchhunt of people reviewing their albums about 2 years about (not that this stuff would even cross Fripps mind)


Edited by Thatfabulousalien - January 20 2018 at 20:09
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16175 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 15:01
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Not to be cynical or defeatist, but it already sucked for artists, now it's straight up lose-lose if you try and resist sharing of your music IMHO. KC will be fine either way as they are indeed one of the few kings on the mountain, but for up and coming acts you're basically screwed.

I agree, however, I think that we have to take history into account here ... RF did not have any control of much of KC's music for ... maybe 30+ years? ... and in that time, he was fine, but the fact/idea that he got seriously ripped off, was a problem, that almost EVERY  ARTIST out there, will take to heart and find a way to control it ... he almost had to wait for the rights to expire so he could take it back ... and now that he has it, I would think that he is conscientious with the older stuff (SW redo's and such) however, I am not sure that he has the time to think about it right now ... not to mention that he also has to make sure the other folks in the albums also get their rightful dues.

As for new bands ... it may be tougher, but in many ways, it is WAY EASIER than it was in the mid 1970's ... you should have seen the amount of records that never got played at the station, which my roommate actually took the time to check out, specially if they were from Europe. And the insults that he got about the music he played (AWB, GE, GG, RB, EBB, KA, RH and we haven't even touched the other Europeans yet!!!!!), because it was not listed somewhere on a chart of top ten. His blog has a lot of that discussion and moments about it. 

It was, horrific to say the least to get something done, and no one was going to pay attention to you if there was not an article or two ... ohh wow ... you must be good!

Today, this is different. The number of bands listed here on PA, I have not even heard, and I do not wish to just hear 1 minute (like the station folks used to do in those days!), and decide I do not like this band or that band. That's not how I listen to music, or enjoy music at all! I give them all a listen ... to be fair and honest. But they are listed ... and that was something that you could not get done 40 years ago ... even if the good old college radio station had some fans that played ... nearly all the odd stuff that no one ever heard ... there just were not enough hours in the day for it all.

Same today ... just a different time and place.

However, any band today, has an advantage. The material is out there and can be heard and some folks can write about it ... like they do here so well, and with the most amazing dedication.

Think about that!  
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 20219 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 07:30
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

A couple of months ago, King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard released Polygondwanaland as free download and I've been a huge fan ever since. I've bought other CDs of theirs and promoted them within my sphere of influence. So it can be beneficial to an artist to allow free access to their music.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it's the artists choice to promote that way and not someone not associated with the band in any way. I've seen it work well for several good young bands. Listening the KG&TLW on bandcamp now. Nice stuff will certainly explore more.
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
Back to Top
I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 05:36
A couple of months ago, King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard released Polygondwanaland as free download and I've been a huge fan ever since. I've bought other CDs of theirs and promoted them within my sphere of influence. So it can be beneficial to an artist to allow free access to their music.
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Back to Top
Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 02:39
Not to be cynical or defeatist, but it already sucked for artists, now it's straight up lose-lose if you try and resist sharing of your music IMHO. KC will be fine either way as they are indeed one of the few kings on the mountain, but for up and coming acts you're basically screwed.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Back to Top
PanzerTarkus View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: January 18 2018
Location: Dayton, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 11 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 05:58
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by PanzerTarkus PanzerTarkus wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that, as far as King Crimson is concerned... They have virtually no presence on YouTube anymore (outside of live performances and bootlegs)? Is this due to the band, or the record label they're on? Why specifically them?

Just as TOOL removed all access to their music from music streaming services, is this an expected move / trend that more musicians and bands will soon follow? Any thoughts?


I believe that Robert Fripp, now has complete control of the total King Crimson catalogue and if he does not wish to share something with the tube ... so be it ... he has that right.

I would prefer to see more videos of the KC, specially the latest versions, but until that comes up, we will have to be happy with just a few things here and there ... but I'm not sure we're going to see many of these "videos" (as in complete shows) until such a time as RF is no longer with us ... and I'm OK with his choice ... like his suggestion, I just close my eyes and listen ... and it is fantastic that way! No distractions.


I'm right there with you. I was only presenting the duality of his/their approach to this, from a business / artist stand point. Everyone on this thread has made some very valuable points, however, I ultimately feel like it's not really benefiting anyone, Us or Them (ha-ha) at all when an artist hoards, or even bans their product from easy access. You can find entire albums from bands like Rush, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc, and they seem to be doing just fine, either way.

I understand the blood, sweat, and tears (including all the time and money to record) that went into his craft, and KC and Fripp are from a time where record sales would make or break you. Since the Napster v. Metallica fiasco, things diametrically changed in the music industry. Contemporary artists and bands know that you can appeal to a niche market, still make money through a cult-following, and proper endorsement.

Needless to say, I just wish that more artists and groups weren't so stingy about sharing music, but I'm 100% aware that it's not our choice.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16175 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 05:35
Originally posted by PanzerTarkus PanzerTarkus wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that, as far as King Crimson is concerned... They have virtually no presence on YouTube anymore (outside of live performances and bootlegs)? Is this due to the band, or the record label they're on? Why specifically them?

Just as TOOL removed all access to their music from music streaming services, is this an expected move / trend that more musicians and bands will soon follow? Any thoughts?

I believe that Robert Fripp, now has complete control of the total King Crimson catalogue and if he does not wish to share something with the tube ... so be it ... he has that right.

I would prefer to see more videos of the KC, specially the latest versions, but until that comes up, we will have to be happy with just a few things here and there ... but I'm not sure we're going to see many of these "videos" (as in complete shows) until such a time as RF is no longer with us ... and I'm OK with his choice ... like his suggestion, I just close my eyes and listen ... and it is fantastic that way! No distractions.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
lazland View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13274 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 00:20
Originally posted by Ocula Band Ocula Band wrote:

King Crimson is still playing, I think they are on a small tour right now. Maybe no one is posting anything on them because they aren't that relevant.  


It has nothing to do with relevance. Fripp does not allow recording at the gigs, and there is a very strict policy enforcing this. Fripp also keeps a very tight control on all things streaming.
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Back to Top
zachfive View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 13 2005
Location: Kitsap WA
Status: Offline
Points: 770 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 22:58
There is a similar conversation in the Micro Library thread.

If I recall correctly, people were uploading Ayreon albums to YT, which would only last for so long before the record label/YT would take them down. So Arjen himself uploaded his entire discography. Hell of man Mr.L is. I discovered him on YT and have since purchased everything he has ever touched.
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12608 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 21:27
Lately the music I have discovered I have checked out on YouTube to know if I like it. Usually, if it's an artist I don't know or even one I know but am unsure about liking the new albums, I'll check them out on YouTube... if it's not available I will most likely not buy it at all. I discovered and loved Soup's new album through YouTube, and ordered the album on CD after that... but then I wanted to hear their previous one and wasn't available, and so haven't got that one.
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 14734 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 20:35
YouTube is a place to get discovered not really an OMG musical experience. King Crimson hardly needs any publicity so it's not a bad choice to keep away. Other prominant artists such as Prince played the same game. However, YouTube is excellent for the lesser knowns. I own all KCs albums anyways and so should everyone so not a biggie for moi

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.