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common prog beliefs that are wrong

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 08:17
Girls can only sing ! (on the backing chorus - not lead)

Silly Puppy is building a good example of this wrong assumption, kudos to him (and the clique supporting him CoolCoolCool)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 09:08
my favorite is that Close to the Edge.. the song... is symphonic prog.

Amazing how little people really know about music.  It is...  an 18 minute long pop song.

Look closely at it.... it follows.. TO THE LETTER the standard Intro - verse - chorus - middle 8 - instrumental break - verse - chorus = outro pop song format 

In fact on a site full of round groups put in square genre containers.. Yes again is one.. and being that it is the biggest and greatest of all prog groups I guess that also qualifies as a wrongly held common prog belief.  They were not symphonic prog.. only Tales .. one album was.  At the heart they were Crossover prog.  They were fans of pop.. and so was their music.  Only that Yes realized that if you good enough, and talented enough.. and godDAMN were they you could fuse the virtuosity and complexity of prog with pop music.
I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 09:30
Originally posted by ReactioninG ReactioninG wrote:

Prog Rock was killed by Punk Rock. (!?) Punk was a three year fad.

Prog Rock was killed by their own record companies and the pressures they placed on Prog Musicians (largely to make pop) in a changing music-making environment would be a better explanation about the late 70s decline.


I agree to a point. Punk didn't kill prog. The classic era of prog had run it's course and burnt out, but after the big punk bands had gone to bed, the likes of Floyd, Yes, Genesis & Tull had re-grouped and continued putting out platinum selling albums.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 09:37
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by ReactioninG ReactioninG wrote:

Prog Rock was killed by Punk Rock. (!?) Punk was a three year fad.

Prog Rock was killed by their own record companies and the pressures they placed on Prog Musicians (largely to make pop) in a changing music-making environment would be a better explanation about the late 70s decline.


I agree to a point. Punk didn't kill prog. The classic era of prog had run it's course and burnt out, but after the big punk bands had gone to bed, the likes of Floyd, Yes, Genesis & Tull had re-grouped and continued putting out platinum selling albums.


bingo.. punk didn't kill prog. Prog killed prog... by stopping being progressive.. and becoming a parody of itself and thus genrefied (© Micky 2006) which did make it an easy target for others. Punk, press, and music fans not living in mama's basement hahahah
I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 09:59
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

Girls can only sing ! (on the backing chorus - not lead)

Silly Puppy is building a good example of this wrong assumption, kudos to him (and the clique supporting him CoolCoolCool)

one of the worst errors indeed




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 20:08
How about a song has to be quite long to be prog, and smaller songs are mostly considered fillers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 20:12
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

  The classic era of prog had run it's course and burnt out, but after the big punk bands had gone to bed, the likes of Floyd, Yes, Genesis & Tull had re-grouped and continued putting out platinum selling albums.

Yep.  They adapted and often overcame.

Except for Grace Under Pressure , which was just bad.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 20:24
That anything actually needs more cowbells.

That you can tune a mellotron.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 20:40
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

That anything actually needs more cowbells.

That you can tune a mellotron.

Is that why your ass is censored? Someone snipped off your cowbells? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ClosetothSupperBrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 20:53
The fact that "young people don't like prog" really bothers me. I don't know any specific users on here who have said that, but it seems to be this preconceived notion that if you're under 35, you can't or won't like prog. I'm 17, I found prog when I was 15. This is a genre that will always gain new followers, and also, (another false belief btw) NEW prog bands will come up and be as good as all the 70s bands we know and love. People thinking prog will "never surpass the bands of 1970-1975" is a false belief that is as sad as is wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 21:27
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

my favorite is that Close to the Edge.. the song... is symphonic prog.

Amazing how little people really know about music.  It is...  an 18 minute long pop song.

Look closely at it.... it follows.. TO THE LETTER the standard Intro - verse - chorus - middle 8 - instrumental break - verse - chorus = outro pop song format 

In fact on a site full of round groups put in square genre containers.. Yes again is one.. and being that it is the biggest and greatest of all prog groups I guess that also qualifies as a wrongly held common prog belief.  They were not symphonic prog.. only Tales .. one album was.  At the heart they were Crossover prog.  They were fans of pop.. and so was their music.  Only that Yes realized that if you good enough, and talented enough.. and godDAMN were they you could fuse the virtuosity and complexity of prog with pop music.


I've read this one before... perhaps, I guess, by yourself (years ago, actually, when I was just joining the forum). And still I don't buy it. Try to put CttE in a pop radio station and see what happens. The intro is enough to scare away any pop music lover, or any rock listener who is not into prog. The part following that intro might be closer to pop, but still I would say that's a stretch... and the song does change it's pace several times... and I don't know much about odd time signature, but I guess it must have it's good share of them. Yes might have known how to make catchy music (for a prog band), but that doesn't make them pop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2018 at 23:15
Glenn Cornick had gas that would choke a horse.  I know for a fact that's an exaggeration.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 06:34
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

People believing that Phil Collins ruined Genesis turning them into a pop band.


All this time I thought that Phil Collins killed prog. So, who killed prog?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 06:40
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

People believing that Phil Collins ruined Genesis turning them into a pop band.


All this time I thought that Phil Collins killed prog. So, who killed prog?

I was actually serious, Phil did not solely decide to go pop, in fact Mike was the first to want to do simpler songs, Your Own Special way stands as example. The interviews that accompany the remasters, Mike and Tony bash the prog days albums, especially Mike. Phil did not. So...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 06:50
That prog is pretentious...well it is but so is every other music form that wishes to convey something more than what is just being uttered in mere words and chords. All art is pretentious...or else it rather misses the mark for me and becomes far too concise and square.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 07:06
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

People believing that Phil Collins ruined Genesis turning them into a pop band.


All this time I thought that Phil Collins killed prog. So, who killed prog?

I was actually serious, Phil did not solely decide to go pop, in fact Mike was the first to want to do simpler songs, Your Own Special way stands as example. The interviews that accompany the remasters, Mike and Tony bash the prog days albums, especially Mike. Phil did not. So...
I believe that all three jumped on the pop bandwagon so who was fist responsible for pushing the band in that direction seems a bit academic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 07:17
The disturbing opinion that Tales From Topographic Oceans would have been better as a single disc.

WRONG!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 08:55
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

That prog is pretentious...well it is but so is every other music form that wishes to convey something more than what is just being uttered in mere words and chords. All art is pretentious...or else it rather misses the mark for me and becomes far too concise and square.

I love this, because not only do I agree fully, but I find post-rock, screamo, emo, "core" anything music to be the most pretentious music possible. To my ears it genuinely sounds like kids who stopped learning about music after they figured out guitar tabs, think two chord progressions are epic, and somehow using big words in the lyrics makes them intellectually superior.

I fully accept that most people view prog rock in exactly this manner. This is why opinions are awesome, and I use mine to argue why most people actually like a different version of the same stuff, despite claiming one is better than the other, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 11:16
Originally posted by ClosetothSupperBrick ClosetothSupperBrick wrote:

The fact that "young people don't like prog" really bothers me. I don't know any specific users on here who have said that, but it seems to be this preconceived notion that if you're under 35, you can't or won't like prog. I'm 17, I found prog when I was 15. This is a genre that will always gain new followers, and also, (another false belief btw) NEW prog bands will come up and be as good as all the 70s bands we know and love. People thinking prog will "never surpass the bands of 1970-1975" is a false belief that is as sad as is wrong.

I saw Magma 2 times at a 21-over nightclub that opened up a non-alcohol service section during the show because of the number of representatives from your age demographic that wanted to see them. A number of them paid extra for the "meet n greet" and showed up with vinyls for signing. This is a band whose core is pushing 70. 

I would argue the ageist notion you speak tends to come from the genres detractors. 
There is no act more pretentious and self-indulgent than labeling another's art as pretentious and self-indulgent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2018 at 11:23
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

That prog is pretentious...well it is but so is every other music form that wishes to convey something more than what is just being uttered in mere words and chords. All art is pretentious...or else it rather misses the mark for me and becomes far too concise and square.

The first time I heard the word pretentious used to describe prog was from a guy with a 2-foot purple mohawk with meticulously spaced studs and decorative band name art work on his leather jacket. I am more convinced as I get older that people who complain about pretentiousness in art want the show to be about them and not the performance.
There is no act more pretentious and self-indulgent than labeling another's art as pretentious and self-indulgent.
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