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Anomandaris View Drop Down
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Hi everyone. So, work is moving forward on this. I now have a preliminary listening list and course outline.

A typical semester is 15 weeks (plus finals). If we meet twice a week (standard for most classes) that will give me 30 classes. I'm structuring my list and class titles around that idea.

I'm thinking of assigning 2-3 albums per class day, or around 5 per week. That's...a lot, honestly. This would be the majority of the work for the course though. These would have short journal entries assigned with them (basically informal impressions) which wouldn't be due every class period but in 3 large installments every five weeks.

Below is my initial outline of the classes and the listening that would be assigned. Some parts are more fleshed out than others. I'm curious to know what you all think about this, both the overall trajectory and more specific details.

Any feedback on the specific bands listed would be appreciated - whether you think a certain band should be either included or omitted from this current list. I could definitely use advice!

Also for those bands that don't have albums listed, any recommendations for specific albums (or album) would also be appreciated.

Finally I'm curious what you think about the categories I created.

Without further ado:



1. Introduction: What is prog?

    Definitions and Characteristics, Precursors (Proto-Prog)

 

2. Canterbury Scene

   

            Listening:

                        CARAVAN, THE SOFT MACHINE

 

The 70s

 

3. Symphonic Prog Part 1

    King Crimson and ELP

           

            Listening:

                        KING CRIMSON: In the Court of the Crimson King (1969)

                        One of these albums by EMERSON, LAKE, AND PALMER

                                    Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (1970)

                                    Tarkus (1971)

                                    Trilogy (1972)

                                    Brain Salad Surgery (1973)

 

4. Symphonic Prog Part 2

    Yes and Genesis

 

            Listening:

                        YES: Close to the Edge (1972)

                        One of these albums by GENESIS

                                    Trespass (1970)

                                    Nursery Cryme (1971)

                                    Foxtrot (1972)

                                    Selling England by the Pound (1973)

 

5. (Tentative) Prog Outliers

    Less popular, more experimental bands

 

            Listening:

                        VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR and GENTLE GIANT

 

6. Progressive Folk

 

            Listening:

                        JETHRO TULL: Thick as a Brick (1972)

                        Other bands: RENAISSANCE, STRAWBS

 (I noticed Renaissance is listed under symphonic prog. What's up with that? Seems very folksy to me. Am I missing something in my understanding of prog folk?)


7. Italian Prog

 

            Listening:

                        BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO, PREMIATA FORNERIA                                          MARCONI, LE ORME

 

8. Dubious Doubles

    Accusations of Pretension and Over-Self-Indulgence

 

            Listening:

                        One of these albums

                        YES: Tales from Topographic Oceans (1973)

                        GENESIS: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)

                        EMERSON, LAKE, AND PALMER: Works, Vol. 1 (1977)

 

9. (Tentative) Prog Holdouts

    The Late 70s, the Rise of Punk and Decline of Prog

 

            Listening:

                        One of these albums by PINK FLOYD

                                    Animals (1977)

                                    The Wall (1979)

                        One of these albums by MIKE OLDFIELD

                                    Incantations (1978)

                                    Platinum (1979)

 

10. (Tentative) Prog Across the Water

 

            Listening:

                        KANSAS and RUSH

                       

11. Krautrock

 

            Listening:

                        AMON DUUL II, POPUL VUH, FAUST

 

12. Progressive Electronic

 

            Listening:

                        TANGERINE DREAM, KLAUS SCHULZE

 

The 80s

 

13. Neo Prog

 

            Listening:

                        MARILLION, IQ, PENDRAGON

 

14. (Tentative) Reunions

           

            Listening:

                        One of these albums by KING CRIMSON

                                    Discipline (1981)

                                    Beat (1982)

                                    Three of a Perfect Pair (1984)

                        ANDERSON BRUFORD WAKEMAN HOWE (Self titled) (1989)

 

15. Progressive Metal

 

            Listening:

                        DREAM THEATER, QUEENSRYCHE, FATE’S WARNING

 

The 90s and beyond

 

16. The Revival Part 1

     Resurgence of Symphonic Prog in Scandinavian Countries in the early 1990s      

 

            Listening:

                        ANGLAGARD: Hybris (1992)

                        ANEKDOTEN: Vemod (1993)

                                                                                               

17. The Revival Part 2

      More Accessible Variants

           

            Listening:

                        One of these albums by THE FLOWER KINGS

                                    Back in the World of Adventures (1995)

                                    Retropolis (1996)

                                    Stardust We Are (1997)

                                    Flower Power (1999)

                        SPOCK’S BEARD?

 

18. Post Rock

     Influences of Minimalism

 

            Listening:

                        SIGUR ROS, GODSPEED YOU! BLACK EMPEROR

 

19. Tech/Extreme Prog Metal

      Progressive Death Metal

 

            Listening:

                        OPETH, ATHEIST, MESHUGGAH

 

20. Experimental/Post Metal

 

            Listening:

                        One of these albums by TOOL

                                    Aenima (1996)

                                    Lateralus (2001)

                                    10,000 Days (2006)

                        MAUDLIN OF THE WELL, NEUROSIS, ISIS

(Tool's a must. I admit to more than a little bias here.) 


21. (Tentative) Progressive Gothic/Doom Metal

 

            Listening:

                        GREEN CARNATION: Light of Day, Day of Darkness (2001)

                        AGALLOCH

 

22. (Tentative) Neo Prog Revisited

     Darker Sounds and the Influence of Metal

 

                        Listening:

                                    One of these albums by ARENA

                                                The Visitor (1998)

                                                Immortal? (2000)

                                                Contagion (2003)

                                                Pepper’s Ghost (2005)

                                    GALAHAD, SYLVAN                       

 

(Tentative “World Tour” section)                                             

 

23. Prog in South America?

 

24. Prog in Asia?

 

25. Prog in...?


(I need bands for these if they're to become part of the course. Essentially looking for local variants which incorporate elements of local styles into prog music. The stylistic peculiarities would be necessary to differentiate them from other sections. Could definitely use recommendations here.)


26.

 

27.

 

28.

 

29.

 

30. New Blends

      The Future and the Ever-Evolving Sound of Prog

 

            Listening:

                        THE MARS VOLTA: Deloused in the Comatorium (2003)

                        One of these following albums:

                        PAIN OF SALVATION: Be (2004)

                        TAAL: Skymind (2003)

(I like the idea of ending on The Mars Volta. Would be a good way of showing how prog is constantly changing. Plus it was so fresh at the time and is still fairly recent. The others are albums I know of personally which feature pretty unique stylistic blends, in my opinion. Am welcome to suggestions of other albums.) 

 

Currently unplaced genres:

 

RIO/Avant-Prog:

Could use some advice here. Currently I'm leaning toward splitting this into two parts: first a 70s section featuring Zappa and Henry Cow and then a 90s section with Mr. Bungle and others (I'd really like to include Mr. Bungle). Curious to people's thought on this.

 

Psychedlic/Space Rock

I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. First there's the really early stuff in the 60s, then there also appears to be stuff in the 70s, and then later stuff as well. How (and where) should I present this section? Could this one also be divided? Also, I already have a lot of "spacey" stuff in this listening list (Krautrock, Electronic, Post-Rock, etc.). I would need to focus on elements that make this genre distinct.


Crossover

If it's featured at all. Still not sure at this point.


-----

That's it! Would appreciate any and all input!


 

 
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On RIO, Zappa is really a category by himself, Henry Cow is a must, I'd hit Art Zoyd, Univers Zero or Samla Mammas Manna as the other early band. Mr Bungle is a fine choice as 90's. I'd go with Thinking Plague, 5UU's, U Totem or the like for the other 90's.
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You really should say something about Krautrock.


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Re Krautrock, I think Can is more influential and central (and actually, in my view, better) than Popul Vuh and Faust. Tago Mago is such a beast, should really be in there.

Re RIO: I'd choose Art Zoyd over pretty much anyone else except Zappa - OK, Henry Cow are more central but Art Zoyd built up so much more over the years.
I also second the people who asked for Zeuhl. As a genre it may not be central but Magma are hugely special and influential.

I'd probably bring in Pink Floyd earlier, I think they are treated in a too marginal manner currently. Psychedelic is an important connection and I think their early work is more important than the Canterbury choices for the initiation of prog; AHM and Meddle are important and DSOTM is probably the best known prog album ever. Chances are you can't cover all of these but only bring in Pink Floyd in the late seventies feels very wrong to me.
Their psychedelic music could be combined with Gong or even early Soft Machine.
 
King Crimson's early eighties trilogy is very dear to me so I like that you bring that in, but for me the topic is rather new wave influence and the changing landscape in the early 80s rather than "reunions" (which somehow suggests music that refers to the past). By the way, Cardiacs could be added under that header.

I like your two Post Rock choices but my impression is that these are not as far away from each other, and that replacing one of them by Mogwai or Tortoise would show more variety in the genre. Also the initiating masterpieces by Talk Talk and Slint are worth considering.
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In #25, where you're continuing a "Prog in ..." subseries, I would suggest Prog in Eastern Europe. 

Possible albums to listen to pre-Iron Curtain:

Solaris - Marbéli Krónikák (Hungary)
Modrý Efekt - Svitanie (Czechoslovakia)
SBB - Pamięć (Poland)
Sfinx - Zalmoxe (Romania)
Indexi - Modra Rijeka (Yugoslavia)
Autograph - Autograph (Russia)

Possible albums to listen to post-Iron Curtain:

After Crying - After Crying 6 (Hungary)
Abraxas - ...Cykl Obraca Się, Narodziny ... (Poland)
Riverside - Second Life Syndrome (Poland)
Vespero - By the Waters of Tomorrow (Russia)
Disen Gage - ...The Reverse May Be True (Russia)
Karfagen - Lost Symphony (Ukraine)

There's a lot to cover in this area:
--bands struggling under Communist regimes / freedom of artists / political aspects / recording quality
--breakup of the Iron Curtain / newly independent countries
--growing popularity of prog in Poland and Russia

I'm only touching the surface of this area myself, so by no means am I proficient in this area. Maybe someone else on Prog Archives with more knowledge of Eastern European prog could chime in with better selections than I have???
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Also the Prog in Asia lesson would probably be dominated by Japan. But I'm not really certain about other Asian countries enough to know if a separate lesson would be filled out.

The Japanese experience seems to mirror other countries: symphonic, psychedelic, and jazz rock/fusion all are represented there. The Japanese Zeuhl movement is interesting too, particularly because Zeuhl didn't expand very much outside of France (I can only think of one band in Italy and another in the U.S.) but seems to have taken off in Japan. I'm hardly proficient in this area; just scraping the surface for my own curiosity. Maybe someone with more expertise could chime in?

Australian/New Zealander prog and African prog were smaller movements, but might be worth bringing out in a separate lesson. 
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Clearly in need of some Fusion flavor.
(and the above suggestion of Talk Talk is also a must, IMO)
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Originally posted by Anomandaris Anomandaris wrote:

Psychedlic/Space Rock

I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. First there's the really early stuff in the 60s, then there also appears to be stuff in the 70s, and then later stuff as well. How (and where) should I present this section? Could this one also be divided? Also, I already have a lot of "spacey" stuff in this listening list (Krautrock, Electronic, Post-Rock, etc.). I would need to focus on elements that make this genre distinct.
It's always a problem combining chronology and theme in historical presentations, particularly when multiple themes intertwine. I would suggest starting Space Rock off in your first week with your discussion of Proto-Prog and Pink Floyd in Piper at the Gates of Dawn (re: Atronomy Domine and Interstellar Overdrive). They are a good example of Proto-Prog at that time in that they didn't intentionally employ complex extended arrangements, but kind of fell into them through a combination of improvisation and individual band members fading in and out, so that there were different sections like later deliberate and highly coordinated arrangements of later Prog generally. This was a feature of Space Rock early on. Very central to Space Rock is the use of an analog delay, which Pink Floyd made great use of. I used to know the model. I can't remember now (it wasn't a stomp box. It was something one used two hands to carry and cost at that time over $1,000. Analog delays weren't miniaturized until some time in the 70s). Anyway, these influences can be found in Amon Düül II and then (perhaps indirectly through Amon Düül II ??) in the first album of Nektar, another acknowledged Space Rock group. Their first album, Journey to the Center of the Eye, has prodigious amounts of delay and creates different sections by fading stuff in and out much like Interstellar Overdrive. Later Space Rock, like Gong, used arrangements that relied on musicians coming in on the right cue, like other Prog arrangements generally. What I'm saying in this roundabout way, is that it may simply be necessary in order to give an adequate treatment to something like Space Rock to meander through Proto Prog (Floyd, later to become actual Prog), Krautrock (ADII), and Canterbury (Gong). You could ignore it, but it was so much right there at the beginning.
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Cool outline. I would personally make a few changes but there's only one which I must stress. As Lewian pointed out, Can has to be first and foremost in a Krautrock discussion. I'd remove Popol Vuh (one of my very favourite bands but not too relevant in a Krautrock overview) and replace them with Can, and I would also consider replacing Faust with Neu! to show the polished and clean-sounding side of Krautrock without compromising the experimental factor.

His suggestion of replacing one of the two post-rock bands is also a good idea. I think Tortoise and GY!BE would be the best combination.

And as much as I love the KC '80s trilogy, I think you should cover only Discipline.


Edited by Larkstongue41 - April 06 2018 at 11:14
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Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by Anomandaris Anomandaris wrote:

Psychedlic/Space Rock

I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. First there's the really early stuff in the 60s, then there also appears to be stuff in the 70s, and then later stuff as well. How (and where) should I present this section? Could this one also be divided? Also, I already have a lot of "spacey" stuff in this listening list (Krautrock, Electronic, Post-Rock, etc.). I would need to focus on elements that make this genre distinct.
It's always a problem combining chronology and theme in historical presentations, particularly when multiple themes intertwine. I would suggest starting Space Rock off in your first week with your discussion of Proto-Prog and Pink Floyd in Piper at the Gates of Dawn (re: Atronomy Domine and Interstellar Overdrive). They are a good example of Proto-Prog at that time in that they didn't intentionally employ complex extended arrangements, but kind of fell into them through a combination of improvisation and individual band members fading in and out, so that there were different sections like later deliberate and highly coordinated arrangements of later Prog generally. This was a feature of Space Rock early on. Very central to Space Rock is the use of an analog delay, which Pink Floyd made great use of. I used to know the model. I can't remember now (it wasn't a stomp box. It was something one used two hands to carry and cost at that time over $1,000. Analog delays weren't miniaturized until some time in the 70s). Anyway, these influences can be found in Amon Düül II and then (perhaps indirectly through Amon Düül II ??) in the first album of Nektar, another acknowledged Space Rock group. Their first album, Journey to the Center of the Eye, has prodigious amounts of delay and creates different sections by fading stuff in and out much like Interstellar Overdrive. Later Space Rock, like Gong, used arrangements that relied on musicians coming in on the right cue, like other Prog arrangements generally. What I'm saying in this roundabout way, is that it may simply be necessary in order to give an adequate treatment to something like Space Rock to meander through Proto Prog (Floyd, later to become actual Prog), Krautrock (ADII), and Canterbury (Gong). You could ignore it, but it was so much right there at the beginning.

space rock without Hawkwind is a contradictio in adiecto


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Quote King Crimson's early eighties trilogy is very dear to me so I like that you bring that in, but for me the topic is rather new wave influence and the changing landscape in the early 80s rather than "reunions" (which somehow suggests music that refers to the past). By the way, Cardiacs could be added under that header.

...and the phantastic "My Life in The Bush of Ghosts" by David Byrne and Brian Eno. Also maybe This Heat. (I just made up a new genre. ;-) )
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by Anomandaris Anomandaris wrote:

Psychedlic/Space Rock

I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. First there's the really early stuff in the 60s, then there also appears to be stuff in the 70s, and then later stuff as well. How (and where) should I present this section? Could this one also be divided? Also, I already have a lot of "spacey" stuff in this listening list (Krautrock, Electronic, Post-Rock, etc.). I would need to focus on elements that make this genre distinct.
It's always a problem combining chronology and theme in historical presentations, particularly when multiple themes intertwine. I would suggest starting Space Rock off in your first week with your discussion of Proto-Prog and Pink Floyd in Piper at the Gates of Dawn (re: Atronomy Domine and Interstellar Overdrive). They are a good example of Proto-Prog at that time in that they didn't intentionally employ complex extended arrangements, but kind of fell into them through a combination of improvisation and individual band members fading in and out, so that there were different sections like later deliberate and highly coordinated arrangements of later Prog generally. This was a feature of Space Rock early on. Very central to Space Rock is the use of an analog delay, which Pink Floyd made great use of. I used to know the model. I can't remember now (it wasn't a stomp box. It was something one used two hands to carry and cost at that time over $1,000. Analog delays weren't miniaturized until some time in the 70s). Anyway, these influences can be found in Amon Düül II and then (perhaps indirectly through Amon Düül II ??) in the first album of Nektar, another acknowledged Space Rock group. Their first album, Journey to the Center of the Eye, has prodigious amounts of delay and creates different sections by fading stuff in and out much like Interstellar Overdrive. Later Space Rock, like Gong, used arrangements that relied on musicians coming in on the right cue, like other Prog arrangements generally. What I'm saying in this roundabout way, is that it may simply be necessary in order to give an adequate treatment to something like Space Rock to meander through Proto Prog (Floyd, later to become actual Prog), Krautrock (ADII), and Canterbury (Gong). You could ignore it, but it was so much right there at the beginning.

space rock without Hawkwind is a contradictio in adiecto
Certainly. And I recommended them in my post on page 1 of this thread.



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Wonderful undertaking!  

It is not possible to talk about the history of prog without discussing the pomp, circumstance and bombast of the live concert experiences!!  

Keith Emerson's twirling in mid-air organ, Peter Gabriel's theatrics etc. were all part of the prog music experience (and, to a lesser extent, still are in the 21st century). 

This is a great interview: 


Another great story!



Edited by cstack3 - April 06 2018 at 22:05
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For Caravan, I recommend In the Land of Grey and Pink (1971).
For Soft Machine, I recommend 1, 2, or 3. 3 is perhaps most highly regarded.
For Van der Graaf Generator, I recommend Pawn Hearts.
For Gentle Giant, I recommend Octopus (1972), In a Glass House (1973), or The Power and the Glory (1974).
For the Strawbs, I recommend From the Witchwood (1971) and Hero and Heroine (1974).
For Premiata Forneria Marconi, I recommend Per un amico (1972) or Photos of Ghosts (1973).
For Amon Düül II, I recommend Phallus Dei (1969), Yeti (1970) or Tanz Der Lemminge (1971).
For Rush, I recommend Hemispheres (1978) most of all, but Farewell to Kings for (1977) or 2112 (1976) are good.
For Marillion, I would recommend Script For a Jester's Tear (1983).
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Thanks for all the responses people. I'll definitely be looking into all those band suggestions. Right now I'm busy with...the rest of school. But I'll check those things out as soon as I'm able.

Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

And as much as I love the KC '80s trilogy, I think you should cover only Discipline.
Why do you say this? I'm not an expert on King Crimson, so I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

For Caravan, I recommend In the Land of Grey and Pink (1971).
For Soft Machine, I recommend 1, 2, or 3. 3 is perhaps most highly regarded.
For Van der Graaf Generator, I recommend Pawn Hearts.
For Gentle Giant, I recommend Octopus (1972), In a Glass House (1973), or The Power and the Glory (1974).
For the Strawbs, I recommend From the Witchwood (1971) and Hero and Heroine (1974). 
For Premiata Forneria Marconi, I recommend Per un amico (1972) or Photos of Ghosts (1973).
For Amon Düül II, I recommend Phallus Dei (1969), Yeti (1970) or Tanz Der Lemminge (1971).
For Rush, I recommend Hemispheres (1978) most of all, but Farewell to Kings for (1977) or 2112 (1976) are good.
For Marillion, I would recommend Script For a Jester's Tear (1983).

Thanks for this! I'll be sure to add these.

For those where you just listed one album, do you consider that to be THE album for the group, so to speak?
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Points: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anomandaris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2018 at 11:28
Hi guys. In other news, I now have a course description. Let me know what you think.

History of Prog: A Survey of Progressive Rock Literature

Course Description

 

Progressive rock is a term applied to a style of music that emerged in England in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Drawing heavily on elements of classical music, as well as features from other musical styles outside of the standard rock and roll classification, progressive rock artists sought to "progress" rock beyond its rhythm and blues foundations towards approaches more geared toward artistic appreciation, often incorporating elements such as more complex arrangements, extended compositions, and a non-commercial approach.

While progressive rock (often abbreviated to "prog") reached its commercial peak in the early 1970s, various incarnations persist to this day. It has now splintered into a variety of different sub-genres, all with distinct stylistic characteristics. This course seeks to map out the historical development of progressive rock, starting in the late 1960s and working up to the present day. 

Students will engage in this topic during the course through active listening assignments of key albums of a particular style or time period, which will be supplemented by lectures, class discussion, written assignments, and a presentation at the end of the semester. At the end of the course, students will be expected to have a clear idea of an overview of progressive rock as it developed throughout the decades, as well as a clear conception of various styles and approaches to composition. They will also be expected to actively engage in comprehension of the music studied in class in a more focused manner than is traditionally applied to rock music or other popular styles. For students trained as classical musicians, they will learn to apply techniques of analysis and attentive listening that they may have up to this point only used for classical music. For students less familiar with classical music, they will learn to look at and listen to music in a more in-depth manner than they may have done previously.

Progressive rock music has often fallen "between the cracks" when it comes to music history courses. Since it veered so far from rock's more humble beginnings, it is often neglected in popular music courses. At the same time, it is not "classical" music, and so it traditionally is not taught in courses involving that either. This course seeks to rectify this exclusion by focusing specifically on this style of music that sought to bring together both the "high" and "low" in music.
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Manuel View Drop Down
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Points: 12399 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2018 at 15:24
It sounds good to me. I wish you good luck in your teaching.
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Hi,

While I do not wish to downgrade this person's desire and abilities, I think that what he is doing is a gross dis-service to the whole thing.

First of all, this is not, necessarily, a musical thing, and it started with social and political over tones. Check the opening of the "Krautrock Special" so you can have an idea ... and it's an American piece of music that is used to show the chaos, in Germany, Paris and other places.

"Progressive" is best KNOWN and interpreted currently because the English speaking media and press, decided that they invented the world, and that it was FLAT because the musicians could not possibly know music and create something on their own, WITHOUT the approval of some self deluded rock critics. And then, putting together something that pretty much states that England discovered the world, is like ... 400 or 500 years ago, when England ruled the seas and went out to conquer all the gold in the world and get all the credit for discovering what they did not discover, which many others had already seen and been to!

The music discussion you are putting together is missing the 3rd dimention, or a reason to live. If you really want to learn something about the subject, pick up EUROCK and read about the first 10 years of that magazine so you can have a better idea of how much so many bands suffered to be able to do things that Genesis copied and became a darling all over Europe for ... because the other band was in jail and would never record another note in their life ... and you don't give a cahoot about it!

That makes ... a list of "progressive" this and that, so empty and vacuous that it makes the whole subject seem ... no wonder people make fun of it! We make it look like YES fans ... a little make up, some clothing from the used store with colors in it, some odd ball perfume, a funny hat with a feather ... and off to the concert you go! Maybe a little sex later, if the person you met was cool, and not just another pick the girls up class of guy!

You don't get it, do you?

Honestly?

I would not pay 10 cents for this course, when PA has so much more, and some of these "academic" folks trying to write things that will get them laughed off iwith their peers, because you are coming off just like another Rolling Stone kisser reporter, and those are not exactly known for journalism, or their ability to say something important and help the music itself ... it has always been about the "STAR" in America, and that magazine is the same, complete with Blue or Pink backgrounds, only missing the song!

"Progressive" is not about each different flavor and country. What made things progressive in almost all of them was an honest attempt at stretching the abilities of rock music into something bigger and better, which rock reviewers hated because it was not a "song" and the lyrics were "weird" (like Winchester Cathedral wasn't!), and there was too much meandering and soloing ... something that Mozart, Beethoven and so many others never did! RIGHT!

I'm sorry ... but one day, you will wake up and find this kind of thing really sad, and dishonest. In England, the beginnings of the "progressive" scene were just as social/political as they were musical, but you are afraid to find that ITCOTKC is the best snapshot of the time and palce there is, but you will never look at a newspaper at that time to find all the headlines, many of which are directly mentioned and connected to the album ... but you are not listening to the wind! AND, you will ignore what I said and wrote on purpose!

I know that I may be fighting an empty battle ... but music, or any art, without ITS SOUL is just a top ten song ... and what you want to call PROGRESSIVE was not, originally, a top ten song, and you don't care to find out why this is being said. You don't even know/understand the HUGE and MASSIVE role of FM radio in America, that helped bust the "progressive" scene in music. You can't even read Dave Cousings' book to get a better idea of what FM radio could NOT do in England that it did in America, in LA and NY that busted the airwaves with new music ... that was not centered with bubble gum crap and made fun of by disk jockeys on the AM stations that thought they were hipper and cooler than the music.

IF, something like that does not help you RISE UP and create ... you are just another idiot and slave. You will never know or understand the freedom of the arts, and its history ... and what became known as "progressive" as one of the greatest periods of arts in the 20th century ... unfortunately, for you ... it's just another rock song.

If I'm a professor reading this, you will be lucky to get a C- ... but I doubt you will read this far in my post!

Good luck!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 16164 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2018 at 07:18
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...
It is not possible to talk about the history of prog without discussing the pomp, circumstance and bombast of the live concert experiences!!  
...
...

I find this unfair.

There isn't, in the history of the arts a whole lot of periods that did not have their POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE, and what you might not see is that this is the part that helps get people's attention.

Best example in the 20th century? The Catholic Church not keeping its mouth shut, made one of the worst filmed pornos ever done, famous and it also helped develop the tape player ... and people started buying videos left and right ... 

In the early 30's, Bunuel and Dali did two short films, because no one was paying attention to the "Surrealist Manifesto" (more or less) and both films ... just blasted the whole scene in the arts left and right into another stratosphere!

A lot of experimental theater in the late 60's was using nudity to get people's attention, and there are many stories of folks even walking out of BOB FOSSE's shows because they were lewd, and suggestive and sometimes blatantly sexual. You can see some of it in the film "All That Jazz" even though it is cleaned up considerably compared to what was there originally I bet. 

In the days of rock music, and LOUDNESS, the only thing left at the FILLMORE was a bunch of weird lights, and not even being able to seeing the band. How is that different? You come not for the music, but simply to see something ENHANCE your stony experience.

It's just weird to see this ... with so much available even on Wiki, on the history of the arts, and even on PA, we still go around saying these things ... and they have been happening from time immemorial ... do you really think that the Greeks could sell their theater at 5AM for folks to come and see without some sort of temptation that made people go ... .gotta go check that out!

I don't understand the lack of perspective in so many of these things, specially when it comes to the HISTORY of the arts/music. It's like in this board, folks intentionally think that rock music is some sort of GOD that deserves credit above all other GODS, and that the history of all the other GODS does not exist under penalty of ... 

Nutz ... just totally nuts. I wonder what folks go to college and university for sometimes! I guess they have nothing to learn!

Too weird for me!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Points: 7946 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2018 at 20:15
Mosh ruins another thread.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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