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What bothers you in Prog Music? ( Pet Peeves )

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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2018 at 17:32
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

1. Hammy vocals.

2. Cheesy lyrics.

3. Covering everything with syrupy layers of mellotron and/or synth to make undistinguished material seem more ‘proggy’.

...these are a few of my favorite things! LOL


Edited by cstack3 - June 02 2018 at 17:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2018 at 17:34
Not getting to the point.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 03:28
^ all prog bothers you then?

For me the drum sound can be just 'wrong' and that will spoil the whole thing. This is obviously a production issue. Good examples are Genesis - Nursery Chryme is wrong while Foxtrot is right. It goes along way to my appreciation of those albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 03:49
Any variation where any female fronted prog act old or modern gets compared to Annie Haslam and/or Renaissance, despite the fact that the band's music may sound nothing like either of the two!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 03:56
Predictable, archetypal, formulaic note, chord, progression, and lyrical theme choices.

Low hanging fruit ANYTHING drives me up a wall. At least try to make the fruit float, or something creative like that!

Here's some floating fruit for just such an occasion:

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deafmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 11:20
What bothers me most about prog is when a keyboard player eats his take-out dinner on stage during another band members solo. 
Deafmoon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 11:25
This is not a music for summer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 13:16
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Any variation where any female fronted prog act old or modern gets compared to Annie Haslam and/or Renaissance, despite the fact that the band's music may sound nothing like either of the two!

I agree...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 14:13
What bothers me is that this thread is even in existence! I always tout my progressive nerd credentials whenever I get the chance whether it be a t-shirt, constantly injecting some progressive rock musician/band into the conversation, etc. Be loud, be proud, be PROGRESSIVE! Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progmatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 17:11
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Any variation where any female fronted prog act old or modern gets compared to Annie Haslam and/or Renaissance, despite the fact that the band's music may sound nothing like either of the two!
The same thing when a band features a flute and is immediately compared to Jethro Tull.
PROGMATIC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 17:17
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

What bothers me most about prog is when a keyboard player eats his take-out dinner on stage during another band members solo. 

LOL Clap

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 17:21
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ all prog bothers you then?

No, just the unnecessarily distended.   Genesis learned this after Gabriel left and in many ways improved.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2018 at 14:19
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

You don't get it.....I don't hate the Beatles.......I don't LISTEN to the Beatles, never have. My parents never did, my wife never did.
I don't hate country or classical music, I don't LISTEN to it. None of them appeal to me.

Then really you have no objective reasoning to back up your opinions. You are uninformed but wish to make blanket statements regarding something you have nothing but the most basic knowledge. To use your own analogy, it would be equally senseless for you to offer comparative opinions on different classical composers.

The Beatles paid for their brilliance by being forced to live most of the 1960s in a bubble. They were the first truly "modern" band in the sense they were mobbed, hounded, chased and had constant media scrutiny. They had to quit touring in 1966 because they literally could not hear what they were playing in concert. One would think that by 1970, they had had quite enough of being "Beatles", and wished to be recognized in their own right. By the end, Paul and John both wanted to be leaders and George was tired of only being allotted 2 tracks per album. Watching the tensions rising on the Let It Be documentary, it is simple to see the band had run its course. They put aside their differences and agreed to let George Martin produce the splendid Abbey Road, then called it quits.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

And yes I agree that some bands should have quit long ago, ie Yes!! LOL But the members still had discipline to keep going as a band with whoever wanted to make music. 
I will say the Beatles went out on top, good decision by them. If they had so much material as individual artists, it was not that good or it was against what was happening in the 70's....It did not work.

Again, your lack of information regarding the 1960s AND the 1970s is quite profound. The Beatles solo released many gems. George Harrison's All Things Must Pass is perhaps one of the best albums of the 1970s, and Concert for Bangladesh and Living in the Material World are also really good and important artifacts of the 1970s. John Lennon released the great John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band album, then Imagine, then got stoned out of his mind for about three years, retired for 5 more and then released the critically acclaimed Double Fantasy in 1980 before being murdered. Paul McCartney was quite good throughout the 1970s before going over the pop deep-end like Phil Collins -- his early solo work like on Ram and the first few Wings albums (Red Rose Speedway, Band on the Run, etc.) were highly regarded. Hell, even Ringo had a few singles ("It Don't Come Easy", "Back of Boogaloo") and good albums in him (1973's Ringo, and Goodnight Vienna).

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Your only telling me Lennon had better chemistry with Yoko than with the other 3.....so he was done with Beatles before the 9yrs. But as a band in the mid 70's I think they would have died an ugly death, better for them and your love of them that what happened, happened....for whatever reason.

I read an interesting article that was based on the premise "what if Japan had not bombed Pearl Harbor?" Naturally, it would have went much better for the Japanese Empire if they had merely attacked the Philippines and engaged the U.S. Navy closer to home, rather than attacking Hawaii and threatening the U.S. mainland, thus causing the U.S. to react with full and overwhelming force. But that is all academic.

But for the Beatles, and particularly between Lennon and McCartney, there was still animus. Staying together or reforming was not a question during the 70s. But Lennon jammed with both Harrison and Ringo on a few albums. All one has to do is listen to Lennon's biting attack on McCartney "How Do You Sleep" (with George Harrison providing slide guitar, no less). It is also a really good song for a Beatle in the 70s:




Yes I get it you love and adore the Beatles and they can do no wrong, I have no issue that you feel this way. Please, as much as the Beatles commanded the FM airwaves you would have to been 100% deaf to not hear their music during the 70's.......You did not need to buy all their albums to know their music, so yes I have a base to make my opinions and are not blanket statements. 
The problem is my statements go against what is dear and near to your heart and that pisses you off! LOL To the point that you all have to create these elaborate posts, referencing articles and magazines and TV specials to defend them and your love of them. 

What made the Beatles was the people behind the Beatles in a lot of cases. In the studio Martin and other engineers created the soundscapes and techniques for their album's. The Fab Four just went along for the ride in many cases....

It's all good.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2018 at 15:21
In a public forum, its hard to ignore any back and forth that concerns the Beatles. I'd like to stick in my 2 cents and guess that Catcher 10 is much younger than Dark Elf and does not share the same feelings of reverence that Dark Elf's generation (or his older sibling's generation) have for the Fabs. To some of us, the Beatles are the alpha and omega. For the rest they are early trendsetters of a music craze and are just as vague as the dusty predecessors of bluegrass music. People point to them in black and white film clips of Ed Sullivan Show performances, as if they were from some century that predates the 20th.

55 years is a long time to have such a hold on the present culture and I'm starting to worry where the reality of Beatles now ends and the myth of Beatles begins. Two are dead and two will follow in the coming years. I'd like to see the Fabs remembered for what they were and are. Average human beings, with all the standard faults and virtues of any other person. Except that they had the ability to change the course of popular music and have left their mark on it, regardless if they are liked or not.


Edited by SteveG - June 04 2018 at 15:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2018 at 18:02
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Yes I get it you love and adore the Beatles and they can do no wrong, I have no issue that you feel this way. Please, as much as the Beatles commanded the FM airwaves you would have to been 100% deaf to not hear their music during the 70's.......You did not need to buy all their albums to know their music, so yes I have a base to make my opinions and are not blanket statements.

"Love and adore" really has nothing to do with it. I am offering an objective musical and historical perspective to an uninformed poster.  You are the one who stated "You don't get it.....I don't hate the Beatles.......I don't LISTEN to the Beatles, never have. My parents never did, my wife never did."  But now you're weakly back-pedaling and basing your conclusions on vague memories of hit songs you might've heard on the radio in the 1970s, without ever listening to albums or doing any research whatsoever. That is why I suggest your opinions are uninformed, and your conclusions are baseless. An opinion without any legitimate basis or actual musical theory is merely a useless assumption.  

For instance, you stated "If they had so much material as individual artists, it was not that good or it was against what was happening in the 70's....It did not work."

Clearly, you either lived in a commune without electricity or are simply tone deaf not to be aware of a lot of superb and highly acclaimed solo material post-Beatles break-up. I offered several excellent albums, you chose to ignore what I said. Are you Amish?

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

The problem is my statements go against what is dear and near to your heart and that pisses you off! LOL To the point that you all have to create these elaborate posts, referencing articles and magazines and TV specials to defend them and your love of them.

Last time I checked, this is a music forum wherein allegedly intelligent posters discuss different aspects of bands in detail. It was my mistake to offer "elaborate posts, referencing articles and magazines and TV specials to defend them." In future, I will reply to you only in monosyllables and very short sentences so as not to tax your evidently limited attention span. Perhaps I will wave a piece of yarn to keep your interest, like I would for a cat.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

What made the Beatles was the people behind the Beatles in a lot of cases. In the studio Martin and other engineers created the soundscapes and techniques for their album's. The Fab Four just went along for the ride in many cases....

I don't think anyone would argue that George Martin was not a brilliant producer. However, only Paul, John and George wrote the songs, and as you are evidently completely unaware of the Beatles' recording techniques and how the songs were formed, I would suggest the further the Beatles advanced, the more responsibility they took for content. Your statement would be just as asinine if you credited Alan Parsons as being solely responsible for Dark Side of the Moon.

I'll leave you with with two George Martin quotes: 

“Because there wasn’t a rock’n’roll precedent, The Beatles when they came turned everything upside down and made a revolution, which I didn’t foresee.”

“They did flower, they blossomed, and they astonished me with their ideas. Each song they brought to me was a gem, and I said to myself, ‘It can’t last.’ I’d say to them, ‘That’s great, now give me a better one.’ And they did." 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2018 at 18:25
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

What bothers me most about prog is when a keyboard player eats his take-out dinner on stage during another band members solo. 


Ah, you must prefer the Hendrix model of barbequeing during his own solo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2018 at 00:06
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ all prog bothers you then?

No, just the unnecessarily distended.   Genesis learned this after Gabriel left and in many ways improved.

Actually agree with that last statement although it goes against most opinion. Banks was a much more lucid writer . That said Peter Gabriel's first 3 albums are as good as any Genesis post Gabriel albums imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2018 at 05:53
Quote
I am offering an objective musical and historical perspective to an uninformed poster.
There is no such thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2018 at 07:03
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

What bothers me most about prog is when a keyboard player eats his take-out dinner on stage during another band members solo. 
I'm fine with that, but when he's also wearing one of those hats that incorporates two cans of beer and a flexible tube system for hands-free drinking, I feel it crosses a line

Edited by Mascodagama - June 05 2018 at 07:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2018 at 07:49
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

What bothers me most about prog is when a keyboard player eats his take-out dinner on stage during another band members solo. 
I'm fine with that, but when he's also wearing one of those hats that incorporates two cans of beer and a flexible tube system for hands-free drinking, I feel it crosses a line
LOL Rof!
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