Worst Rated Efforts from the Big Six |
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YESESIS
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2017 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 2215 |
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I love Invisible Touch :(
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DarkTower
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 22 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 507 |
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All bad albums but Open Your Eyes wins the "prize"
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questionsneverknown
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 22 2009 Location: Ultima Thule Status: Offline Points: 602 |
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This is a fascinating set of comparisons to make, but it is also hard to rank them against each other. In the Hot Seat is a pretty poor album, compared with the others in this list, but also poor compared with the rest of ELP's albums (thus, the original criteria). Same for Open Your Eyes--poor next to the others in the list, and poor compared with Yes's overall output. Beat, for me at least, is one of the best albums on this list, but obviously not favored well compared with other KC albums, which might be fair enough (even if I don't necessarily agree). To ask a different question, then, I'm curious what people think of this list that PA voters have created: Do you think the rankings feel accurate? Do you think Invisible Touch is the weakest of all of Genesis's albums? More so than We Can't Dance or Calling All Stations? Is Beat weaker than Construkction of Light? Is Open Your Eyes weaker than Talk? Etc. Thoughts?
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The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love
The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough. --Robyn Hitchcock |
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Wanorak
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4574 |
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Invisible Touch; the song itself makes me cringe lol.
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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32812 |
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Chaser, having just listened to Beat again in full after many years, your sentiment holds true with me. I appreciate it more than I used to (my tastes have expanded since then). I needed time and experience, exposure to more kinds of music, to "get" it more.
By the way, when using terms such as "dire", to me it would benefit from some elaboration (my wife says I'm far too fussy on this kind of point, but I do try to think about the context). Dire in what way? I don't think that the musicianship could be considered dire? The composition? I don't see how either. The experience could be dire, and I guess that's all that was meant -- in which case I would phrase it as "I found it dire" rather than "just dire". My British dad would claim that rock and pop music generally is horrid, and he was a nuanced thinker in most matters (he did mean it quite literally methinks, but then he thought it to be of lower artistic value and less intellectual than classical music, and I might be inclined to agree on the whole). ^^ Questions, I like it, but I have considered Beat to be something of a step down from the King Crimson that came before (and I prefer Belew's Lone Rhino) -- I didn't find it quite as adventurous despite the quirkiness as earlier albums, and stylistically it didn't appeal to me as much on the whole. I would have liked it to be a bigger departure from Discipline. I like some songs off it, and others not so much. For instance, I like "Sartori in Tangier" a lot and love "Requiem" (one that I've seen hated, but then it would be too "out there" for many), but "Heartbeat" I don't like as much (provides good contrast, mind you). Requiem's opening is reminiscent of some other music in my collection, which I can't quite recollect right now. Maybe I just never had listened to the album enough, or at the right time, to let it really grow on me. There is some really good playing, and it is still quirky, and there is interesting music on this album, though. If one is into the Talking Heads kind of scene, and certain stuff by Zappa, one might well enjoy it more. I would have sooner listened to other stuff from 1982 in ProgArchives such as Zanov's In Course of Time, Art Zoyd's Phase IV, Jean-Paul Prat's Masal, and Brainticket's Voyage, but variety is the spice of life. As I already mentioned, though, I do appreciate Beat considerably more than I once did (even though I quite liked it before). I am wary to give other options on the list a proper spin. I liked the Pink Floyd when it came out, but it didn't appeal when last I played it. Edited by Logan - August 08 2018 at 13:10 |
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Chaser
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 18 2018 Location: Nottingham Status: Offline Points: 1202 |
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Thanks Logan, and you're of course correct that I was responding to Hercules' post that the other four albums (including Beat) were "dire". I fully understood that it was included in the poll because it was the lowest rated KC album on PA (although I don't understand why it's lowest rated) Hercules clearly has a different view of the album to me, which is absolutely fine, but I was simply giving my own view that Beat is neither "dire" nor the worst KC album. Interestingly, I first listened to Beat as a teenager many years ago, and my view then was that it was a poor KC album. I just couldn't get into it. I put it away on the shelf for maybe 20 years before I rediscovered it and started to appreciate that it's actually a very good album. So, I can understand why someone would rate it as poor, but, from my experience, it's an album that needs time before you begin to appreciate its qualities.
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Songs cast a light on you
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questionsneverknown
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 22 2009 Location: Ultima Thule Status: Offline Points: 602 |
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Went for Open Your Eyes, but could have easily gone for In the Hot Seat. To be fair, Emerson had difficulty playing at that time. Yes's excuse?
Beat is a wonderful album, and I've never understood the disfavor that album receives. The production of Momentary Lapse doesn't let it age well, and it can be a bit dull in places, but it's not really that terrible. I haven't yet heard Under Wraps, so can't judge. And dare I say it, Invisible Touch may not be brilliant, but it's not evil.
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The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love
The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough. --Robyn Hitchcock |
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progmatic
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1785 |
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After listening to "In the Hot Seat," I needed hELP.
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PROGMATIC
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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It has to be ELP, although itīs the only album I havenīt heard from those. Going to listen it soon, I am interested, can I listen it whole through...
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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Well...
1) Fortunately have never heard Invisible Touch or Under Wraps, but their reputations precede them... 2) Not that Black Moon was a masterpiece, but "In the Sh*t Seat" was a big step down... 3) I like most of Momentary Lapse (though it does drag a bit after the halfway mark)... 4) I like a lot of "Open Your Eyes" though a friend and I refer to the band at that point as, "Ye$" and the album as, "Open Your Wallets"... 5) I hate Beat so much it's the only studio Crimson album I refuse to own so get's my vote
Edited by The.Crimson.King - August 08 2018 at 10:07 |
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TCat
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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Sad to say that a Yes album has to be the worst of the lot. "Open Your Eyes" is the worst of them all, though the last two Yes albums were even worse that that. I like "Beat", and "Under Wraps" isn't that bad. Even "A Momentary Lack of Reason" has more high points than "The Final Cut". "In the Hot Seat" and "Invisible Touch" are both failures when it comes to prog and are the runners up to the worst.
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TerLJack
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 18 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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It seems no one in the Yes camp could "Open Your Eyes" to see how badly this record was coming out.
Beat is easily the best of these records however.
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Scorpius
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 22 2016 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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[QUOTE=verslibre]
Beat is a great album. It shouldn't be a part of this poll. ;) Lapse really shouldn't be, either. I tend to agree, but I just used the lowest rated albums according to PA to make the list. I actually quite enjoy both of those albums myself.
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The most dangerous man in America.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 15058 |
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Beat is a great album. It shouldn't be a part of this poll. ;) Lapse really shouldn't be, either. Of the rest, it's a toss-up between ITHS and OYE.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12418 |
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For me it's a tie between "Invisible Touch" and "Open Your Eyes". Both left me equally disappointed. "In The Hot Seat" follows very closely.
Edited by Manuel - August 08 2018 at 08:53 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32812 |
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It doesn't offend me in the least, and I know your thoughts on King Crimson generally. I just wanted to correct the "no one stated" statement for Chaser's sake (perhaps he doesn't care, but I would appreciate it if someone did that for me -- Dean has, but I think he recognised my sensitive sensibilities). Commonly when I post in a topic, I refer to the post prior to mine as that feels more naturally conversational, and I thought that Chaser may in in part be disagreeing with your statement about Beat. I happen to avoid stating my tastes in that way to make clear the subjectivity (but maybe that's because of the culture I grew up in). For instance, I tend to say "I don't care for", or "it's bad for me" instead of say, "it's horrendous" to merely state my tastes. I can like music that I do think is poor by various measures, such as The Shagg's Philosophy of the World.In cases where I really do believe something is objectively bad, then I state it as that. For instance, I do believe that Trump is a bad man by my ethical standards and I might say that the Trump presidency is dire (I think there's evidence for that that goes beyond personal taste, though I find his taste gaudy). But that's fine if others express themselves differently as long as it is clear to people what they mean. That said, my point, again, was merely to point out that someone stated that it is poor, not to cast aspersions on your statement. Ugh, I promised myself that I would write concisely, but I fail in my endeavor once again (I can never seem to get the balance right between being clear in intent while concise and not rambling on-and-on). And Captcha seems to think that this post is Craptcha as much as I do. |
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
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Beat is awful IMHO, but it's well known that i cannot stand most King Crimson. It's called "personal taste". Sorry if mine offends you, but that's unfortunate.
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Logan
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Hercules did in the post just prior to Chaser's. Pretty dreadful implies poor and dire can mean very bad. |
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2007 Location: NYC/Rhinebeck Status: Offline Points: 4071 |
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Invisible touch is a decent album especially Domino and The Brazilian---
Open your eyes is a horror---this is what you get when u let sherwood take over the sound of what was once the greatest prog band--it's not even Yes with the exception of a few good guitar licks from Howe---
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14124 |
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! Invisible Touch is dreadful, but I don't know In the Hot Seat and Open Your Eyes and I'm not curious. (Beat is good enough that I'd vote it the best out of these easily and confidently without knowing two of them, but voting for the worst, no.)
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