Clannad vs Fairport Convention Prog Folk |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
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I prefer Fairport's brand of folk rock over Clannad. I have almost all the Fairport music including Denny's solo things and side projects as well as Richard Thompson's albums.
I've never though there was that much 'prog' going on with either band ...and I often wonder how some of these bands get lumped under prog folk here at PA.....not that it really mattes in the end.
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Cosmiclawnmower
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Fairport and all its off-shoots by a country mile!! Clannad were fine early on but after Magical ring it wasn't really my thing and Macalla plus that single with Bono.. urgghh… not a big fan of Enya either..
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8854 |
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Since this thread is turning into a popularity contest...
I respect Fairport to the moon and back, love what they have given to British folk rock, admire their influence, etc, etc, etc, but would choose to listen to pre 1988 Clannad over any Fairport 19 times out of 20. I will NOT blame them for inspiring Enya's mega billions selling solo career with their brillian 1983 hit, "Theme from Harry's Game". But I will blame them for trying to emulate her after she struck multi platinum.
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Barbu
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SteveG
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What? I thought this was a "who's more prog thread!" Neither are really prog to me. FC are more rock. Complicated at times but rock. And I'll take Fairport over Clannad 100 times to 1. ;)
Edited by SteveG - October 01 2018 at 03:57 |
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moshkito
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Hi,
If taken in context at the time they first came up, I would say that Fairport Convention is way more progressive and interesting than Clannad, and while this could be said to be my preference, you can look at the various things they did in the early days, which were not "exactly" making FOLK music well known, and in fact, it should be stated that they were making sure that its tradition of experimentation and continuation was alive and well ... there are many pieces available of them extending the songs, and showing an improvised element that I am not sure that Clannad has at all, which would take away from their "progressive" ideal altogether, but that is my seeing it. And catching all the FC albums with Sandy Denny, is a treat that I'm not sure that many folks can totally appreciate. You can start and stop at "Reynardine" and then "One More Chance", a song that also comes with a piano version that is even more scary than the original in the album, which was already a song about the departed from this earth Sandy Denny, with a massive duet of instruments in it, that was likely done after she fell. But it brought out the "progressive" in the band, and their rendition of "Reynardine" is one of the prettiest things ever recorded in rock music, though too artsy and pretty, for many folks here to even consider it "progressive", but considering it "folk"? Way out of the atmosphere on that one, I suppose! Folk had never been that "electric" and "pointed" as it was at that moment. I do not think that Clannad, ever had the strength and ability that FC displayed over their history, and in many ways, I would almost consider Clannad a lot of pop songs and music, and not even something like FC that on occasion defied the definition of ... folk music?
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kev rowland
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What an interesting thread. I would concur that Fairport Convention belong in the prog folk genre as opposed to prog related, just because of what they did with traditional music and the impact they had on so many other bands: 'Liege and Lief' is widely, and deservedly, seen as one of the most important albums of all time. Prior to that they had been experimenting with West Coast stylings, and were hugely influenced by The Byrds. Following from that they released a series of incredibly important albums, before they disappeared.
But, they never went away did they? They actually released some bloody good material in the later Seventies, and after they disbanded they decided to hold an annual reunion. This in turn led to a reformation of the band (sadly without Swarb or Thompson), and they again released some excellent albums and continue to do so to the present day. They have reinvented themselves a few times - I saw them many times when Maart turned them more electric rock and both he and Dave Mattacks played keyboards as well, but have also enjoyed the twin fiddle approach of the most recent line-up. I have seen them too many times to count, and last year travelled from New Zealand to the UK just to attend the 50th Anniversary Cropredy. The old guys came on stage at 8:00, and then blasted away for four hours - not bad considering many of them had been playing on and off over the previous two days as well. I was fortunate enough to visit Woodworm Studios some years back and interview Peggy and Simon, and it was an experience I am never likely to forget. I also enjoy Clannad, but not to anything like the same degree, and believe they are in the correct genre. But as for FC? They should be moved if Prog Folk team are in agreement.
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someone_else
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Glad to see both bands included in PA, regardless if they are in Prog Folk or Prog Related. Fairport were progressive in the Liege & Lief-era anyway, so they should be included rather in either Prog Folk, Proto-Prog or Prog Related. Weren't they in Prog Folk a long time ago?
Anyway, it is not my part to Judge in which subgenre they should belong. I am not a subgenre specialist and the Prog Folk policy is way too enigmatic for me to fathom.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8854 |
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Thanks everyone for their points and preferences. In the end, it doesn't matter whether you prefer Fairport to Clannad . What matters is that Fairport, while influential enough to be in prog related, has enough credentials to be prog folk, especially in their early years. Clannad was later to the scene and were just as transformative in their own way. Both bands' influence went far beyond prog, to shape English folk rock and Celtic/ambient music respectively but not exclusively. I will bring the suggestion to the prog folk team for FAIRPORT.
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dr wu23
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I often have trouble hearing some of the prog elements that are ascribed to some bands that are included here ...but Fairport is certainly as 'progressive' as Pentangle , and they are included on PA.
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micky
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hmmm... I can't say I agree with that Doc. It were those progressive elements in Pentangle absent largely in Fairport that kept them from being ...what Fairport is considered.. the quintessential English 'folk rock' act while Pentangle shade much more into what the site recognizes as progressive folk.
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YESESIS
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After reading through this thread I want to youtube and typed in "clannad full album." The first result was Macalla. I meditated to it.. That was literally the best meditation experience I've had since MDK. Just never know what you might find on this forum! |
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micky
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oh I can't wait till you discover Sequenze e Frequenze man....
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8854 |
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yeah agreed that Pentangle is more prog than Fairport, by virtue of their jazzy vibe. Clannad has that vibe too, definitely more influenced by Pentangle than by Fairport, particularly up to and including "Magical Ring". This is a family that had music in their blood, and it wasn't just folk music, but all kinds. Watch the pastpresent video if you can find it, from 1989 - it's a mix of concert footage, interviews and music videos.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19620 |
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I was around when FC was included. At the time, it was the first of those historic UK folk-rock that got included in the DB, but I wasn't warm in including them in PF for a few reasons - and a few admins approved my qualms back then. I do recognize their merits and loved their longer tracks (like Sailor's life), but the band usually settled into a groove and would solo away (ad-nauseam, sometimes), but would never wander out of the groove. Sometimes, their grooves was in 5/4 (like Tam Lin, for ex), but they just stayed in it, no other fancy stuff. In the early days of the site, I didn't want to dilute the PF genre (and neither did my two co-workers of back then) with half-baked inclusion (which FC seemed in that context).... though Horslips was already in. Of course, with the dozen of additions since with weaker prog credentials (I screwed up myself in including DCD in PF on the force of Aion ) , so nowadays it seems awkward that stuff like Clannad is in a full-blown prog genre, while FC isn't. Personally, I think that now that the dilution damage has been done, I think it could make sense to have FC in PF. I'm still fighting against it (FC's move upwards) right now , but that's mostly on rigorous and rigid intellectual integrity If there are other cases in Prog-related; we could analyse their case individually, according to their respective merits. Edited by Sean Trane - October 06 2018 at 02:28 |
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SteveG
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Sean Trane
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At the time, that was my reasoning as well (which stood for Steeleye Span as well)... Pentangle was more of a jazz-folk band than a folk-rock one.
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SteveG
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^ Yup, they had that strange fusion thing going on that was just so..so..prog!
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dr wu23
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We'll have to agree to disagree...to me there is nothing particularly progressive about Pentangle and in fact the early albums are pretty mainstream imho. And we are talking folk rock here as well as prog folk...and Pentangle don't 'rock' for me....though I do like them. As I said I don't think Fairport are particularly proggy either but again we are having that conversation about what prog even means.
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SteveG
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Different people have different criteria's for prog, Doc. Time changes started and stopped on a dime will do it for me while cascades of spacey synths work for others. But we know this music is not pop and that's important to me!
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