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King Crimson: Discipline

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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 08 2018 at 04:33
And now for something completely different: Discipline. I always felt the group should have stayed with that named instead of switching to King Crimson because the symphonic elements were gone. It's not my cuppa but I understand why people like this era of KC and this album in particular.

Edited by SteveG - 14 seconds ago at 04:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 06:12
Discipline is one of KC's four masterpiece albums.
 
I don't have an issue with Discipline (and Beat and TOAPP) coming out under the King Crimson name.  The music is highly progressive and innovative and sits perfectly under the KC banner.
 
Plus I think there are commercial considerations here (something which we proggers sometimes get a bit sniffy about, but it is an important consideration).  It's just easier to market a new album under a band name that everyone knows rather than trying to market a brand new band name.
 
I don't entirely agree with you that "the symphonic elements were gone" either.  Accepting that the album is electronic in style, I still think that a track like "The Sheltering Sky" is very symphonic in style.
 
One of the truly great albums for me and too often underrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 06:59
Since I heard it for the first time it's in my top five albums of all time, occasionally at no. 1. The definition of razor sharp in music and maybe unique in achieving top scores for both, individual instrumental performances and teamwork/coordination. Cool lyrics, too, and I'm not normally interested in lyrics.

And probably the origin of math rock, isn't it? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 07:06
Maybe my third favourite KC album. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 13:04
8th release in the studio and that's where it stands for me....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 13:06
Absolutely perfect from beginning to end. It's good that a new direction was indulged. '80s KC was its own animal. That line-up and the 4tet of Fripp, Wetton, Cross and Broof are the best, IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 21:16
I haven't actually heard the album, but I have heard all the songs live, by the same line-up, and by the double trio line-up... and all the songs that the double trio played I liked much better than the original line-up ones. For what I could hear, I'm not really all that impressed... yeah, it's got some very nice songs, but they just don't reach the same heights that my favourite 70's songs do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 21:20
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And now for something completely different: Discipline. I always felt the group should have stayed with that named instead of switching to King Crimson because the symphonic elements were gone. It's not my cuppa but I understand why people like this era of KC and this album in particular.

Edited by SteveG - 14 seconds ago at 04:31


 love this album Steve.. really love it.   By far my favorite album by them.

My thoughts on it?

as far as their symphonic elements?  hogwash...  that is like calling ELP a symphonic band.  Being heavily inspired by classical music is not the same as being symphonic.  In fact KC in their most 'famed' incarnation was for all intents and purposes a damned jam band who were masters at imporvization.

I like the emphasis on traditional song structure here and of course the addition of Belew and Levin took a ho hum 'whatever' kind of group and gave it something special in sound as well as style.

edit...and  that's an odd quote..  guess you had to pop in to do a quick edit huh haha


Edited by micky - October 08 2018 at 21:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walkscore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 21:25
Discipline is my second-favourite Crimson album (after 'Red') and up there among the best. I prefer Belew's lyrics and singing too. I am glad the band continued as Crimson, emphasizing the continuities rather than break with the past, Bruford once again pushing the boundaries of original rock drumming, and the three guitarists (or rather two guitarists and Chapman Stick) with their contrasting styles worked perfectly.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 03:31
I also thought I'd have preferred the group's name to be Discipline, but if Fripp had stuck with that name, not sure the 90's and 00's albums would've been recorded and put under Crimson's name.
 
If I like Discipline (the album), I'm much less enthralled by Beat (mostly a repeat performance of Discipline, IMHO)  and 3oaPP. Combining the better tracks of the latter two albums would make a single Lp album that would actually rivalize in quality  with Discipline, IMHO
 
Overall, I tend to think the 80's version of Crimson was their weakest.
Not by who was inside the band, but because the zeitgeist drove them to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 00:08
I don't really like eighties KC at all. Fripp is amazing though and I'm looking forward to the Bournemouth show later this month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 13:22
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I don't really like eighties KC at all.

Same here...just not a fan of Belew's lyrics & vocals in KC (though I love Lone Rhino).  I wish they had followed their original plan and named the 80's band Discipline Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 15:42
I love the album!  Keep in mind the era....rock was transitioning due to the influence of punk rock and new wave, and traditional prog acts like Yes, ELP etc. were running out of gas.  Discipline was the natural evolution of Bob's work in "League of Gentlemen" and work with Eno, Bowie and Gabriel.  

Bringing Adrian in was a brilliant move, as it was the first time that Bob shared guitarist duties.  Adrian's Talking Heads vocal style was a departure from the Greg Lake/John Wetton crooner style, which I appreciated in that era.

Bruford was the bridge to the LTIA past, and Levin the bridge to the Peter Gabriel-influence pop future.  

Plus, this was the first time that the Roland guitar synth was employed!  I met with Bob after the show and told him that the Roland "was a very strong instrument," and he smiled and nodded!!  He has since taken guitar synth to another level, and Discipline was the origin of this.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 15:52
Blew me away, and most young musicians I knew too.   It was the early 80s and nothing like that was being done or had ever been heard (other than the obvious David Byrne influence Belew brought over).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2018 at 15:05
For me at least, Discipline has not stood the test of time over the decades and repeated listenings, as the 60s/70s Crimso has. 

I can appreciate the difference in approach, but the older Crimson had something that got lost along the way after 1975 or so (a shift from classic prog to modern prog). Sort of like comparing the Mona Lisa to something by Andy Warhol.


Edited by Boojieboy - October 12 2018 at 15:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squonk19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2018 at 18:57
It didn't click with me at all when it came out... as I compared it to classic 70s King Crimson. Only in hindsight, and a more mature approach to prog rock that age does bring upon you (you young whippersnappers!), I do find much to enjoy, these days. More angular and percussive - it beats a lot of stuff that came out in that 'transitional' 80s era when my love of rock of all genres faded slightly at the time (thankfully fully restored these days!)

Edited by Squonk19 - October 12 2018 at 18:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote philipemery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2018 at 21:28
Unpopular opinion:

Not a huge fan of Discipline.

My favorite albums of KC are the first four. I can honestly live without anything from KC after Islands. Most of their stuff after the break up of Fripp and Sinfield didn't feel like KC to me. That and, imo, when only one original member of a band remains, you can't really call it the same band anymore anyways. And as such, I don't consider anything after Islands to be true KC anymore. Same applies to modern Styx (given that JY is the last founder in the band, since Chuck can barely stand up long enough to play on an album anymore).

1. In the Wake of Poseidon
2. In the Court of the Crimson King
3. Islands
4. Lizard
5. Red
6. Starless and Bible Black
7. Beat
8. Larks' Tongues in Aspic
9. Discipline
10. Three of a Perfect Pair
11. THRAK
12. The Power to Believe
13. The ConstruKtion of Light

Edited by philipemery - October 12 2018 at 21:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 08:05
Stone-cold masterpiece. In my (very humble) opinion, the album that gave birth to modern prog - as in the idea that a band can play progressive music without necessarily using the Seventies as a template. Though I realize that Adrian Belew is a very divisive figure in the prog scene, I think the current incarnation of KC lost a lot by not having him in its ranks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 08:11
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

the album that gave birth to modern prog - as in the idea that a band can play progressive music without necessarily using the Seventies as a template. .

god you are so hot... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 08:19
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