Brexit: A change of heart??

Sean Trane wrote: Chaser wrote: If it happened it would almost certainly result in actual civil war in the UK. Which is worse? Leaving the EU and being a bit poorer or an all out civil war that would tear the country literally apart? I think we'll be leaving How on earth do you figure that??

Well, look, I'm not saying I expect a civil war in that scenario, but I do think it is within the range of possibilities.

The government themselves have said that unilaterally overturning the referendum result could unleash dangerous forces in the UK.

Of course they don't use words like "civil war" and I wouldn't expect them to.

However, the idea that the government could unilaterally revoke the decision to leave the EU and 17.5 million people would just say "ok, we accept that and we'll just carry on as normal" is, I think, extremely naive.

There would, I expect, be mass demonstrations on the streets (by both sides) and the situation would become highly volatile and unpredictable, which is why I say that it is not possible to be certain where it would lead. It would be a very dangerous situation for our country to be in.

LOL, every time this topic shows up i'm reminded of this song for some reason.

Coming back on this (sorry short post before because I had to go to the pub to discuss.... Brexit! Yes, my god we are obsessed with Brexit in the UK and god only knows what we're going to talk about when it's all over.... If it ever is)

So, Theresa May. Well, she already has fallen on her sword in that she's agreed that she will not be the Tory leader at the next election (i.e. she will stand down as Prime Minister)

She wanted her legacy to be reforming the National Health Service, or some such thing, but, anyway, that's irrelevant because her legacy will be BREXIT!

And I don't think history will be too kind to her either. Whilst everyone admires her fortitude, I mean she keeps getting punched but keeps geting up and carrying on, her deal is terrible and she has proved to be a poor negotiator. She should have prepared for a no deal Brexit from the start which would have put us in a stronger negotiating position, but while she said "no deal is better than a bad deal" everyone knew she meant "any deal is better than no deal"

She will not try to revoke article 50, even if she could, because the ramifications would be enormous.

Everyone is playing a game at the moment.

The EU's gameis to leave the UK with a choice between accepting the May deal, which means remaining in the EU in perpetuity but with no say over anything, or crashing out with no deal.

The EU are gambling that the UK won't jump off the cliff, but they may have miscalculated.

I think we might jump.

micky wrote: we can relate to that.. oh yes we can... at least our national nightmare will be over soon interesting posts guys.. thanks. @Chaser.. you do not mention not an extension of the Art. 50 process... but a revoking of it.  Sure it might be poltical suicide for May to do.. but isn't she dead man walking anyway...  I take it you think there is no chance she falls on her sword and in the absence of a orderly withdraw from the E.U and the potential of all the doomsday scenarios of a hard Brexit.. including a breakup of the UK .. that she does the responsible thing and revokes it.  Her final words before she is crucified being.. next time.. have a parachute on before you jump off a cliff.  I mean I've seen some stupid sh*t go down here in America.. but your government really took the cake on this one. Perhaps a stupid line of ignorant reasoning.. but to outside observers like myself.. it seems like the smart and responsible course and god knows it sounds like someone in your government has to the one to stand up and say.. wait just a damned minute here.. we are we doing here...

^ She'll never do it, more's the pity. Nor will any of that rabble, nor those in control of the party (I use the term loosely) on the other side of the House.

Edited by Mascodagama - January 02 2019 at 12:09

As an appendix to the above:

Our intrepid leaders, who have so far made a complete pigs breakfast of negotiating Brexit, have belatedly begun preparations for out no deal exit on 29th March at 11pm (Greenwich Mean Time, not some nasty foreign time)

The good news is that they have commissioned a ferry company to ensure supplies continue to be shipped to the UK after 29th March.

Unfortunately the press have now uncovered that the ferry company actually have no ferries, and their ferry owning is more of an aspiration.

They hope to have ferries by 29th March

You couldn't make it up!

In addition the port they intend to use can't deal with ferries and needs to be dredged.

I have zero love for the EU, but I don't have much confidence in our bunch of clowns either

Expect much more of this kind of fun over the next few months.

It won't be dull...

micky wrote: great discussion.  I have no dog in the issue other than that morbid fascination with watching car crashes.. nah that is France, Train wrecks.. nah that is the US.. oh no..  airline crashes where no one walks away from.. that is the UK. We f**ked up here.. but you all topped us on this one. Trump and our right wing populism are on their way out and into the history books.  Ours was a temporarily sh*tting of the bed.. there was nothing our system would allow Trump or the GOP to change the way things are going.. what is changing our country is codified in our laws.. and can't be changed via Executive Orders or stupid pointless physical barriers... but it looks like the UK decided to burn the damn thing in the attempt to perserve their ideals of nationalism. read an interesting article about the times we are in ... and yes.. the very relation between the 3 crashes going on. Any thoughts from the UK'rs here? http://www.politico.eu/article/ken-clarke-interview-brexit-populism-tories/ a lot of very good points there.. especially with what may happen here with the other shoe dropping in reaction to Trump.  A 180 degree swing from right wing populism to left wing populism both of which as Trump has done to his party..and what I have sort of foreseen happening to the Democratic Party.. destroys the established parties. His points though are very spot on IMO. While it is fun to point fingers and launch internet/social media zingers calling Trump voter/Brexiteer's racists and bigots and white identity politics.. the real onus behind the surge in right wing nationalism is the vast chasm in between haves and have nots due to unregulated captialism.. which is what I think the next the decade is going to see here in the states which the rise of left wing populism here which will tear apart the Democratic Party as much as Trump and the right wing populists tore apart the Repubican party. very very fascinating to see what happening the next couple of months in the UK.. and beyond...

LAM-SGC wrote:  This is not my own political view, this is just an explanation of what certain words mean and how governments apply them, don't shoot the messenger:  A refugee granted refuge in a safe country ceases to be a refugee when they the leave the country that granted them refuge to move to another country, at that point they become a migrant. The term economic migrant used to be used before to differentiate between migrants and refugees.

Edited by Dougie McGee - January 02 2019 at 02:30

Chaser wrote: [QUOTE=Dougie McGee]   All suggestions and ideas welcome.

Edited by Dougie McGee - January 01 2019 at 06:49