Beatles: Sgt Pepper vs Abbey Road |
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The.Crimson.King
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Love Abbey Road (especially side 2) but Sgt Peppers forever changed the pop/rock musical world and is perfectly described by PA's definition of eclectic prog
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NYSPORTSFAN
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There is much to be said how The Beatles were simultaneously arguably rock music greatest songwriters and arguably creating some of the most experimental rock records at the time while never losing their pop sensibilities. I know this is something that Brian Wilson wanted to accomplish but couldn't really achieve. Saying The Beatles are overrated borders on the insane. Like Revolver, Sgt Peppers there are stark swings of different genres from song to song going from hard rock, classical, Indian, electronic psychedelia, music hall and pop music. This increased eclecticism helped broadened the sound of rock music overall. However, there are differences as well there is more layering of different instruments, the songs were longer, reprisal of the first track and cross fading of songs with sound effects. This was probably a huge influence on Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall and probably countless of rock musicians. Nothing is straightforward the hard rock of Sgt. Peppers has french horns, classical Indian song "Wiithin You Without You" fuses western strings and "A Day In The Life" uses an orchestra for avant garde purposes. The use of layering with additional instruments was most likely influenced by Pet Sounds but the Beatles style was much different that is wasn't informed by the Phil Spector Wall of Sound. However, their use of the studio for creating psychedelic music which started on Revolver is unlike the Sounds from San Francisco. Abbey Road contains some of The Beatles best vocal harmonies and instrumental work. The album does not sound like a typical 1969 album. The album is more prog like than their so called technically advanced friends Led Zeppelin or The Who were doing. The Beatles again uses a comparatively new instrument this time the synthesizer and blends it without really overwhelming their songwriting. They used the instrument in a variety of ways including the classical use of the instrument on "Because" how proggy is that and the slow build-up of noise on "I Want You" (She's So Heavy)". Other interesting things from this album that I hear includes are traces of Black Sabbath on "I Want You" (She's So Heavy) and the interesting structure of the 16 minute medley. It also contains two of their greatest pops songs in "Something" and "Here Comes the Sun" both written by George Harrison. Tough choice but it's Sgt. Peppers for me. Edited by NYSPORTSFAN - December 22 2018 at 08:08 |
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5744 |
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I prefer to enter into the merits of the issues, to argue my personal opinions without automatically conforming to those of the more established critics (from whom I often diverge, and explain why, always saying that it is my opinion). But if the answers that come to me are "take the cotton out of your ears", then I quote "the principle of authority", that is, those music critics who support my opinions, since not all of us have our ears plugged. If you are not interested in my arguments or the judgment of the critics, it is clear that there is no debate. In any case, my opinions or chopper or atavachron opinions are just opinions. No opinion represents the Bible, the revealed word, the ultimate truth. Especially on secondary events such as the beauty of Octopus's Garden or Lovely Rita, songs in any case minor, which do not determine the greatness of the albums to which they belong, indeed, if anything, they do not prevent those albums to be great. For some it is better Octopus, for others Rita (or 64, or Good Morning). Personally I prefer Octopus, which I do not consider a song for children (Yellow Submarine, All Together Now, with their student choirs and amateur arrangements are), as much as it pleases children (like many songs by McCartney or... Supertramp). The Beatles certainly considered it a good pop piece, in fact they inserted it in the A side of an album that they composed with a lot of care. In the critical judgments I read, it is considered a good country-pop, well sung, well arranged, well played, and with a catchy and captivating melody. All this within the limits of a light, carefree, funny pop song. Instead I read various criticisms about Lovely Rita and Good Morning, both for inspiration and for the arrangement both for the text (When I'm sixty four has an unexceptionabile arrangement, it's pretty, but ... in short, it's really light) . I do not consider them bad songs, only weaker than Octopus. Lovely Rita I like especially for the instrumental parts, which I consider the most creative, with which it has saved from banality: the piano solo by George Martin, the ending with strange sounds. Good Morning has a very particular metric, and is generally original. But, I agree with those critics who claim that it is one of the few Beatles songs overproduced, both for the arrangement of the wind instruments and for the sounds of the henhouse, which hide the lack of a completed ending. On the other hand, the idea of attacking the sound of the hens with the electric guitar, which introduces Pepper's reprise, is good. Finally, as I have already written, I consider Pepper and Abbey two masterpieces without bad songs. My rating is 5 stars for both. Edited by jamesbaldwin - December 19 2018 at 13:57 |
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"Happiness is real only when shared"
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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^
I do think The Beatles are overrated, although, they did have immense popularity to the point of world domination ! They could have easily curled up in a ball and become a really experimental Prog band as the 70’s rolled on, but they didn’t...... |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64460 |
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^ That is a great one. I think the album is so transcendent that sometimes it's actually hard to hear. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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I don’t see many (any) mentions for Fixing a Hole, such a great song. I’m not really a fan of the Fab Four, but they have done some good things.
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Sean Trane
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Abbey Road is much better if only because of the terrible Harrison track Within You
Not a fan of a few others on Pepper (Rita, Home, Morning and Kite), but that's probably more due to over-exposure Whereas Maxwell and Octopus, I never understood why some people had gripes against them, but I still find both quite enjoyable nowadays
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chopper
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I agree, I've read loads of Beatles books and never read anyone say OG was better than Rita or GMGM (which incidentally goes to a new level on the recent reissue).
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uduwudu
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I suppose it was a mere coincidence that all of the material on that majestic artistic triumph Sgt Pepper (1978) w/ Bee Gees Frampton et all was all taken from these two albums. Sweet inspiration. A Day In The Life is a pinnacle. For me the placing of this bleak vision, which still is very much of it's time, outside the Sgt Pepper garden gives the album the necessary contrast from the various psych pop styles of the content. '60s pop art and very good. Pair it with Mystery Tour and the picture takes on quite a shine. With Abbey Road they finally got around to making a rock album, a proper one. And a really good one as well. I'd pick Abbey Road, the worst is the same quasi daft ideas that first appeared on Pepper the best is generally better. Tough nothing quite tops A Day In The Life. I know I probably shouldn't but I do like dear old Octopus' Garden. Country child like whimsy; pretty much everything I find abhorrent that is not punk or Puppy Love. Trouble is ol' Ringo is charming as you can get. Nice man.
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Atavachron
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I couldn't care less about what books or forums say. And yes I think Rita and Good Morning are better-- they have soul and joy and creativity. Octopus's Garden is a children's song. Nothing wrong with that but it's not on the level of anything on Peppers. Edited by Atavachron - December 19 2018 at 00:33 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 41442 |
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Abbey Road
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5744 |
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Do you think that Lovely Rita or Good Morning, Good Morning are much better? In every italian forum of the Beatles, and even in the music critics books I have read, they are considered worse. |
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"Happiness is real only when shared"
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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erm.......Revolver !!!
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Atavachron
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Are you out of your bloody freaking mind? Take the cotton out of your ears and turn off the leaf blower. Edited by Atavachron - December 18 2018 at 14:35 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5744 |
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In My opinion Octopus's Garden is a good country-pop song (awful is Dont Pass Me By from the White Album). Excellent the fender guitar solo by Harrison, excellent the arrangement, valid the melody and the singing of Ringo. If I consider the quality, It's better than When I'm Sixty Four, Lovely Rita and Good Morning Good Morning (Sgt Pepper) and similar to She's Leaving Home, which flies higher than Octopus for the simphonic arrangement but (in my opinion) is too much verbose. Moreover, in the context of the first side of Abbey Road, a light, pop but well-done song is good. Anyway, I consider the side A of Sgt Pepper slightly better, as a whole, than the side A of Abbey Road. Sgt Pepper's side A is perfect (conception, quality, sequence, arrangements, total effect) only She's Leaving (if I wanted to be finicky) is not completely successful.
Edited by jamesbaldwin - December 18 2018 at 06:08 |
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"Happiness is real only when shared"
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chopper
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Only one? Not the awful Octopus's Garden then?
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Finnforest
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Pepper. I always thought, clearly in the minority, that Abbey Road was just okay. I mean, it's still the Fabs, but if you remove the outstanding Harrison material, I don't think Paul or John had their best songwriting here.
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Atavachron
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Thing is, the Beatles were a rock band until the day they broke up. Sgt. Peppers was a rock album even with all its innovations and art music, and it is that rawness, those imperfections & flaws, that make it a true masterpiece. Same for Revolver and the White Album. What made Abbey Road appealing was a slight but significant move away from rock 'n roll toward the kind of cleaner, somewhat overgroomed mainstream pop that would have immeasurable influence on all popular and commercial music in general. I prefer Pepper. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5744 |
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My personal ranking:
1 Abbey Road: 9,5/10 - Five stars 2 Sgt Pepper: 9,5 - Five stars 3 White Album: 9,5 - Five stars 4 Magical Mystery Tour - 9 _Five stars (4 and half) --- 5 Rubber Soul: 8,5 - 4 stars 6 Revolver: 8,5 - 4 stars 7 Let It Be: 8+ - 4 stars |
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"Happiness is real only when shared"
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The Dark Elf
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I prefer the White Album to either, but if forced I would say Abbey Road.
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