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BrufordFreak View Drop Down
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


Composition wise, I think that there are a lot of things that stand up, however, my preference is to see them "unplugged" completely, so that a piece can stand up as the outstanding music it is, as Rachel Flowers has shown us with Keith Emerson as a great example, and even Rick Wakeman has shown us with some piano pieces of YES' own music. To me, that is a much more interesting exercise and definition, instead of the most stupid thing, like a blue guitar, or a swinging organ, or a poetry spewing wannabe with (supposedly) aesthetic inspirations.


Great statement here, Moshie! I've tried to make this point before: if electricity were removed from the scene, what musics would stand up and still be revered?

Yet, I do not mean to denigrate the amazing accomplishments that electrified instruments and electronic keys/computers and sound processing equipment have enabled artists to produce. I LOVE music!
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:


I LOVE this point! And I agree: It seems to me that the search for spiritual fulfillment, realization, "cosmic consciousness" and even "universal love" was more pervasive, more genuine, and expressed more in art forms (like music) back then. Look at Van Morrison, Jon Anderson, John and Alice Coltrane, John McLaughlin, the Kosmische Musik scene, and many others from the 60s and 70s. Their music was an expression of their spiritual discoveries, goals, and aspirations. Today's artists seem less inclined to be so focused (which is why I'm loving Moongarden's latest album).  

Naming many of my favourites there....but will have to check out Moongarden, not familiar.  Sounds like I should be.

Music can certainly be a sort of spiritual practice...it is apparent in the artists you mention above.


Edited by Snicolette - December 26 2018 at 16:56
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Arena - Double Vision, I already love it as much as I love Fragile, SFTW, PATGOD, Demons & Wizards, Ommadawn, The Snow Goose and ITCOTCK. 
 


Edited by LAM-SGC - December 26 2018 at 18:04
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Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

  For me, there is nothing that is post 1970s that can do for me in terms of musical value, and capability of appreciation, what some albums from the seventies consistently do for me, that is for sure.
        But can I make a sweeping generalisation, and speak en mass for all of us, of course not! There are recordings from today that mean just as much for today's audience as they did-and do-for me from the seventies.
       I think we need more Triumvirat threads. Merry Christmas.

I hope you had a Merry Christmas, Doug!!  Thanks for your commentary as always!!  Clap
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Has it been pointed out yet that two albums from the past two years are currently on progarchives top 100 albums list? Those would be albums by Wobbler(the latest) and All Traps on Earth. Both are not only in the top 100 but top 20. 
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Has it been pointed out yet that two albums from the past two years are currently on progarchives top 100 albums list? Those would be albums by Wobbler(the latest) and All Traps on Earth. Both are not only in the top 100 but top 20. 
 

Especially the latter may be subject to the 'fanboys-come-first-syndrome': the album has been released very recently and there have been some more cases of albums that were received with great acclaim and dropped back into less visible ranks afterwards (if I remember it right, Phideaux' Snowtorch reached #30 or so).

I am not judging the album which I haven't even heard yet, only telling what I've seen before.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Arena - Double Vision, I already love it as much as I love Fragile, SFTW, PATGOD, Demons & Wizards, Ommadawn, The Snow Goose and ITCOTCK. 
 
Thank you for the suggestion of Arena, I am quite fond of all of your other mentioned artists/works.  Expanding horizons is a good part of my participation in these forums.
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I am old enough (62) to have experience a great deal of music back in the day and I agree with those who say today's groups don't bring the same thrill and emotional satisfaction as the original prog bands. But that's because back in the day, almost all prog was new. Whatever anyone did was different than the homogeneous music that had previously dominated the airwaves. Every time a new band came out -- Tull, Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd et al -- it was a new sound no one had ever heard before. Add in the nostalgia factor and it's no wonder today's bands don't provide the same thrill -- so much prog music has been made, virtually everything made now is compared to something that came before, usually one of the original greats.
That said, I personally find plenty of bands from the last 20 years that absolutely provide the same kind of thrills I used to get when I was young, and find myself giving newer favorites heavier play than the oldies but goodies.
I think if I heard Porcupine Tree or Anekdoten or Astra or Phideaux or a hundred other groups (shout out to the non-prog listed but tragically underrated and always great dada) back in the day, my head would have exploded from delight. Any one of the PT albums from "Signify" through "Fear of a Blank Planet" would be ranked as high as any of the classic Genesis or Yes, had I heard it in my youth like the others.
I think this is the golden era of prog music. There is so much great music being made I can't keep up. And virtually everything that was ever made before is available again, along with unreleased studio and live material from old favorites. I only wish I had better health and more time to listen.
By the way, happy new year to all on this site! May 2019 bring everyone many fantastic musical discoveries!
PROGMATIC
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Has it been pointed out yet that two albums from the past two years are currently on progarchives top 100 albums list? Those would be albums by Wobbler(the latest) and All Traps on Earth. Both are not only in the top 100 but top 20. 
 
A Drop Of Light (All Traps On Earth) is an extraordinary album. Currently, it has a rating of 4.71 which is higher than every other album in the top 100 (including Close To The Edge (Yes) with a rating of 4.66) (its QWR = 4.4197 which ranks it at 12). Also, every reviewer has given it a score of 5 stars.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Originally posted by progmatic progmatic wrote:

I am old enough (62) to have experience a great deal of music back in the day and I agree with those who say today's groups don't bring the same thrill and emotional satisfaction as the original prog bands. But that's because back in the day, almost all prog was new. Whatever anyone did was different than the homogeneous music that had previously dominated the airwaves. Every time a new band came out -- Tull, Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd et al -- it was a new sound no one had ever heard before. Add in the nostalgia factor and it's no wonder today's bands don't provide the same thrill -- so much prog music has been made, virtually everything made now is compared to something that came before, usually one of the original greats.
That said, I personally find plenty of bands from the last 20 years that absolutely provide the same kind of thrills I used to get when I was young, and find myself giving newer favorites heavier play than the oldies but goodies.
I think if I heard Porcupine Tree or Anekdoten or Astra or Phideaux or a hundred other groups (shout out to the non-prog listed but tragically underrated and always great dada) back in the day, my head would have exploded from delight. Any one of the PT albums from "Signify" through "Fear of a Blank Planet" would be ranked as high as any of the classic Genesis or Yes, had I heard it in my youth like the others.
I think this is the golden era of prog music. There is so much great music being made I can't keep up. And virtually everything that was ever made before is available again, along with unreleased studio and live material from old favorites. I only wish I had better health and more time to listen.
By the way, happy new year to all on this site! May 2019 bring everyone many fantastic musical discoveries!


Well said!
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Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Has it been pointed out yet that two albums from the past two years are currently on progarchives top 100 albums list? Those would be albums by Wobbler(the latest) and All Traps on Earth. Both are not only in the top 100 but top 20. 
 

Especially the latter may be subject to the 'fanboys-come-first-syndrome': the album has been released very recently and there have been some more cases of albums that were received with great acclaim and dropped back into less visible ranks afterwards (if I remember it right, Phideaux' Snowtorch reached #30 or so).

I am not judging the album which I haven't even heard yet, only telling what I've seen before.


That may be true about AToE. As for Wobbler it might also be true since I don't think any of their other albums are on the top 100. However, there are releases from Steven Wilson, Riverside, Phideaux, Opeth and a few others from the past few years still on the top 100. 
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:


I LOVE this point! And I agree: It seems to me that the search for spiritual fulfillment, realization, "cosmic consciousness" and even "universal love" was more pervasive, more genuine, and expressed more in art forms (like music) back then. Look at Van Morrison, Jon Anderson, John and Alice Coltrane, John McLaughlin, the Kosmische Musik scene, and many others from the 60s and 70s. Their music was an expression of their spiritual discoveries, goals, and aspirations. Today's artists seem less inclined to be so focused (which is why I'm loving Moongarden's latest album).  

Naming many of my favourites there....but will have to check out Moongarden, not familiar.  Sounds like I should be.

Music can certainly be a sort of spiritual practice...it is apparent in the artists you mention above.

Hi,

It's cyclical ... sometimes things that have a spiritual perspective is more accepted, and at other times, it is not. It comes and goes, and will keep returning time and again.

However, the very important part of the whole "spiritual" thing was actually something that the media helped bring about, unintentionally, but folks like the Beatles and Rolling Stones, made famous and better known around the world than before ... that the inner thing did exist.

Until such a time, as we stop being cynical about our inner/spiritual beliefs, I'm not sure that a lot of arts and specially music, can stand up and be accepted. Hearing a guy play outstanding music for someone 30 years ago, was neat and far out, until ... some bad stories came around! Now everyone ignores the great music because of it. And, it will probably happen again in 20 years and someone else will create music and have some inspiration somewhere else ... and it will be fine.

But let's not be saying that "progressive" must include this "search" for spirit ... because it's search was just as important musically, artistically, as it was spiritual. And, that maybe what we have to wake up to!
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by progmatic progmatic wrote:

I am old enough (62) to have experience a great deal of music back in the day and I agree with those who say today's groups don't bring the same thrill and emotional satisfaction as the original prog bands. But that's because back in the day, almost all prog was new. Whatever anyone did was different than the homogeneous music that had previously dominated the airwaves. Every time a new band came out -- Tull, Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd et al -- it was a new sound no one had ever heard before. Add in the nostalgia factor and it's no wonder today's bands don't provide the same thrill -- so much prog music has been made, virtually everything made now is compared to something that came before, usually one of the original greats.
That said, I personally find plenty of bands from the last 20 years that absolutely provide the same kind of thrills I used to get when I was young, and find myself giving newer favorites heavier play than the oldies but goodies.
I think if I heard Porcupine Tree or Anekdoten or Astra or Phideaux or a hundred other groups (shout out to the non-prog listed but tragically underrated and always great dada) back in the day, my head would have exploded from delight. Any one of the PT albums from "Signify" through "Fear of a Blank Planet" would be ranked as high as any of the classic Genesis or Yes, had I heard it in my youth like the others.
I think this is the golden era of prog music. There is so much great music being made I can't keep up. And virtually everything that was ever made before is available again, along with unreleased studio and live material from old favorites. I only wish I had better health and more time to listen.
By the way, happy new year to all on this site! May 2019 bring everyone many fantastic musical discoveries!



Well said!

Very true, indeed! That initial burst of music in our youth defined us in many ways - although it is the ability to see the quality beyond that, which keeps prog alive for a newer generation. Well said!

Edited by Squonk19 - December 27 2018 at 17:15
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I think he really touched on a truth, "back in the day, almost all prog was new."  And I also agree with him, from the same perspective of having been there, that I still enjoy the thrill of discovery!  And, for me,  then sharing the discovery with others.  And exploring what others have found compelling.  
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

In answer to the original question - EASILY!

I could make a long list but really it is just a feeling you get . Even the original classic prog albums didn't really hit me straight away. Only Tarkus made that connection with me initially. 

If I could pick just one 21st Century prog album it would be Steven Wilson's The Rave That Refused To Sing. Wilson ,Minnerman , Beggs and co have created a truly wonderful album that sits right up there in my opinion.

Nice choice--especially from a skill position! I agree that compositionally and performance-wise it doesn't get much better. BUT, I find something lacking, as if some part of the human soul has been held back--some of man's vulnerability and imperfections have been obscured. I don't know . . . it's tough to put into words.
 

Well my favourite album is Brain Salad Surgery so perhaps that explains my choice!?
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I can't (and won't attempt to) speak objectively, but I personally enjoy the 70's prog more than the majority of what I'm hearing come out these days. There are several fantastic modern prog acts I can absolutely get into, but on the whole, my mind associates the term with the 70's stuff. There's just so much of it!

Not a sleight against any modern bands that totally rock (progressively!), I just find myself spending most of my prog seeking done checking out bands from the 70's (especially hunting down ones I haven't heard yet).

Great topic of discussion!

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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


Composition wise, I think that there are a lot of things that stand up, however, my preference is to see them "unplugged" completely, so that a piece can stand up as the outstanding music it is, as Rachel Flowers has shown us with Keith Emerson as a great example, and even Rick Wakeman has shown us with some piano pieces of YES' own music. To me, that is a much more interesting exercise and definition, instead of the most stupid thing, like a blue guitar, or a swinging organ, or a poetry spewing wannabe with (supposedly) aesthetic inspirations.


Great statement here, Moshie! I've tried to make this point before: if electricity were removed from the scene, what musics would stand up and still be revered?
...

All of it!

The electricity is an enhancement to the music ... not the music itself.

There was a time when the synthesizer was a new "instrument", and it made music. The "sunthesizer" is no longer (at least the analog one) an "instrument" that could be added to the "orchestra" (or "band") and not replace any instruments, and this is where things get confusing.

In general, even in a synth these days, you are playing the same keys you would on a piano, so taking the electricity out of it is not an issue ... again, look at Rachel, and a couple of RW examples. So what it was a Moog ... you still heard the notes and it did not make the original look bad at all ... it made it look like the incredible composition that it was that ... most rock fans can not appreciate. And there are many good things, even in the metal area, though, sound wise, that is not a good one for me ... and that is when I came up with the idea of taking the electricity out ... many of those metal bands would die out real quick next to so many other things ... but ... we also need to be honest ... one or two of them will stand up even better, more than likely!
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

I think he really touched on a truth, "back in the day, almost all prog was new."  And I also agree with him, from the same perspective of having been there, that I still enjoy the thrill of discovery!  And, for me,  then sharing the discovery with others.  And exploring what others have found compelling.  

Hi,

What is strange for me, is seeing folks that "listen", and sometimes "hear" a lot of music, and then say that YES is their favorite band ... and while I can understand this to a point, I can say Stravinsky is my favorite composer, I do not look at any other music out there as poor by comparison, and neither do I think that Stravinsky is better than any of those other folks.

Its the subjectivity of the subject that is a problem, and I wish there was a pill to help with that ... I still don't see anyone that names their top 5 some of the biggest names in the game, actually mention anything else from Timbuktu, or Venus ... it's hard to believe that such a person actually listened to other things within that context, because ANY INDIVIDUALITY by anyone, would always add some oddity in the middle, regardless of who it was.

The "new music" in those days, combined many things ... art, music, literature (since the late 50's), and film (since the mid 50's), where the individuality stood out and showed you that different things could be done, and when the drug craze started up, it was like more fuel to the fire, but the drugs didn't kill the music ... the media did ... because almost all of the "drug culture music" is fine and very listenable, regardless of what style it fits.

Today's new music, sometimes feels like ... just a different note sideways ... because folks from Berkleez do not know how to teach free form and experimentation and work with elements that are not "musical", in order to help their students find something new ... so you get someone that knows his Apple really good and shows off on stage with it, or you find a drummer that can do one more trick ... and still can't do, a Moonie, or a Bonzo, or a Mani.

it all ends up going back to school and what the teacher helps you with and how they share the learning of listening ... and appreciating different musics from different times, and how they stood out. But it is scary when a kid taking some music lessons heard some Bach for the first time, and said ... that is really dumb music. 

Makes you wonder what is being taught, and then we expect new stuff? I'm not sure it can happen like that!
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I think that "favourite," and "best," can mean two different things...For me, I tend to listen to a wide variety of disparate genres.  So I have favourites amongst them and less favourites as well...But I'd be pretty hard pressed to select just one out of all of that to say it was my absolute #1 all of the time.

And certainly, to veer from music, when my son was small, he was working on a drawing and crumpled it up in frustration...I asked him why, and he said, "Well, what is the point when you look at what Leonardo DaVinci did?"  The point is, that there are all kinds of art and artists and any learning is worth the effort to see how far you can go with it.  I told him, that because of his gift, Leonardo just didn't have to work as hard at an early age, but he also worked hard at what he did for the love of it (at least it appears so).

I agree that some music teachers can be very rigid...Just like any other form of education, it can kill the love of learning and experimentation if it is too much so.  And others inspire the heck out of one.  Those are the good ones.
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I have a favorite band and that will likely never change but it doesn't mean that I can't or don't listen to new music or that I think my favorite band is superior to all others. Over the years I have had dalliances with other bands and listened to their music moreso than my favorite but in the end, I always came back to my favorite. I still enjoy those other bands but they haven't supplanted my favorite. 

This site has been a great boon to me for finding new bands, or even bands I knew about but never gave much of a chance 
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