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Rachel Flowers covers Pirates

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 18 2019 at 04:57
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I sympathize with Rachel Flowers - its meaningful and healthy to start out copying and dissecting the works created by your heroes before having a go at creating your own art. I'm just waiting for the latter to happen I guess.

Up until 50 years ago, this could only be done with a SCORE sheet that showed the notes, and you played them.

Rock music, and even jazz, kinda changed that because the score sheets did not have the emotion that showed a lot more for the note, or notes, something that a score sheet has never been able to define well, and that even opera has failed because its singers, and progenitors do not have the talent to improve the singing, and at times, even disregard some of the score to make the singing better, specially for today's audiences that were weened in rock music, with amplification, and even vocal effects.

For the 21st century, you argument kinda falls apart some in my way of seeing this ... you can break up the music a lot more, than just notes, since a DAW can tell you the effect and what was done, and many things can be redone and relearned ... I suppose that we should say this is the new SCORE sheet, and it will improve many pieces of music in the future, although the old ones ... well, they will lose even more of their appeal, once that older generation is gone.

Taking a score sheet and "copying" the music is what many conductors have done, with the difference that some thought that Beethoven wanted to feel this or that, and others felt differently and put the emphasis somewhere else, up to and even considering at least one conductor, who had the habit of changing the setup in the orchestra so he could make sure that one instrument was heard better and more up front, and picked up loud and clear by the microphones, where in the regular setup they would be buried.

Rachel, will do her interpretations when she does the Endless Enigma, or Tarkus on the piano ... but in these pieces, when she is merely playing the stuff that she obviously loves, I think that "copying" is a bit harsh of a criticism, although I don't really think you mean to criticize that much.

But for today's audience, and listeners, what she does is valuable and important, because as a recording, it is much more up to date, and its audibility (is there such a word?) is much clearer than it was 45 years ago when the recording of it, was fine and we bought it, but not as loud and clear as it can be, which is what SW has been doing for the last 10 years. With Rachel you don't miss much, and when listening to some of the Bruford/KC pieces, she even has all the little fry pans and touches that Bill added that no one ever heard, and neither did SW ... but her ears picked it up, and she made sure that all the ticks, and tacks and touches were in place ... and it adds to the piece magnificently ... it adds a certain touch of the eccentric, which fits KC and RF ... possibly not all the others, but it does fit Bruford and maybe Cross, which made that era of KC one of the best for me.

Doing ELP, is a bit different, and I think that she sees the compositional side of the works a lot more than we do ... and that seems to be what helps her decide which piece is coming up next ... Pirates was probably the obvious one, and I'm not sure there will be many others aside from the classical compositions that Keith had, most of which we have never heard, and are probably still sitting on a closet until someone gives it to her! She's the only one that can make KE shine ... like no one else has been able to all these years, and let us see, that there was a lot more in there ... that we failed to see, thinking that a man was just showing off his chops, when in fact he was trying hard to make sure people noticed the quality of his work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 23:57
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Maybe she could collaborate with Robert Berry. 

 

Good idea.
3.2 The Rules Have Changed is excellent. Much better than the 3 to the power of 3 album which was just dumbed down AOR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 04:26
Never heard of her before I saw this thread title and I have now watched two youtube videos. And I'm not sure what I'm more impressed by, her musical memory and skill while being handicapped or the fact that she has made me take an interest in ELP's music, a band I've never really had much time for before now.    This one is amazing:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iGjW2oYEX0
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rminsk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 00:10
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Anyway, this sounds good. Does she sing too or is that someone else?
Rachel is singing.  Every sound on her Soundcloud page is by Rachel... Keyboards, drums on the keyboard, guitar, bass, flute, singing, ...

Her first album "Listen" does not contain singing but vocalizations on a few tracks.  Her new album "Going Somewhere" she sings on every track.  Neither album would be considered prog rock.  They would classified more as jazz, classical, R&B, and rock.


Edited by rminsk - January 17 2019 at 00:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 22:48
She pirated Pirates? Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 21:29
Originally posted by rminsk rminsk wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I sympathize with Rachel Flowers - its meaningful and healthy to start out copying and dissecting the works created by your heroes before having a go at creating your own art. I'm just waiting for the latter to happen I guess.
https://shop.rachelflowersmusic.com/
Yeah fine but how was I supposed to know. I'm just reacting to the shares and what you been discussing here. None of you seem to be equally interested in her own material but just go on about her incredible cover versions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 20:55
Maybe she could collaborate with Robert Berry. 

Anyway, this sounds good. Does she sing too or is that someone else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rminsk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 20:45
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I sympathize with Rachel Flowers - its meaningful and healthy to start out copying and dissecting the works created by your heroes before having a go at creating your own art. I'm just waiting for the latter to happen I guess.
https://shop.rachelflowersmusic.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 13:03
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I don't pretend to see Beethoven directing the orchestra or Mozart playing the piano to enjoy their music.
And the members of the orchestra don't pretent to be artists either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 12:54
She has already two albums out. They can't be compared to the songs that she usually covers, unfortunately. But with her skill I'm expecting something great sooner or later.
Let me add that I've been 5 times at gigs of Pink Floyd Legend, three times at Fluido Rosa and once at Australian Pink Floyd. Once at a Queen cover band (with 4 different lead singers) and I have enjyed them all.

I don't pretend to see Beethoven directing the orchestra or Mozart playing the piano to enjoy their music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 07:37
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I sympathize with Rachel Flowers - its meaningful and healthy to start out copying and dissecting the works created by your heroes before having a go at creating your own art. I'm just waiting for the latter to happen I guess.


Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 06:39
I sympathize with Rachel Flowers - its meaningful and healthy to start out copying and dissecting the works created by your heroes before having a go at creating your own art. I'm just waiting for the latter to happen I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 06:35
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

… but criticizing someone for LOVING MUSIC AND DOING AN INCREDIBLE JOB BRINGING IT TO YOU AND I …. is insane.

Because you never ever criticize anyone who brings us music do you? Wacko
 

It was meant for music that is older than you and I, not some stupid rock song that you happen to like!

It wouldn't be so bad, if it was a different song … but it's always the same one! Or another Jethro Tull song … !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 05:39
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

… but criticizing someone for LOVING MUSIC AND DOING AN INCREDIBLE JOB BRINGING IT TO YOU AND I …. is insane.

Because you never ever criticize anyone who brings us music do you? Wacko


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 16 2019 at 05:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 05:34
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

She has covered many other classics like King Crimson's Starless, Lark's Tongues in Aspic (both parts) or Zappa's Peaches en Regalia. If anything can be critisized is that her covers are perhaps too identical to the originals, and because she uses software instruments they may sound sometimes a bit artificial, missing the nuances from real instruments played by great musicians.

 

There are some things that can be missed here … and one of them is in Starless … where you can hear all the small ticks and tacks and stuff that BB did, which are lost and buried in all KC mixes, because rock fans only care about cowbells … well, that's the joke anyway! And get PC to do it!

Using software instruments, is all that is possible these days. Your criticism is a bit scary, since no one could afford to get a big synth that cost thousands, and the replicas that are twice that much, to make you think that it can sound the same … regardless, it can't … it's in different hands!

Tomorrow, even the guitar will not be played like it is today and will be done by a keyboard player … which already happens anyway, and your chance to see/hear a blues player will be gone forever … because times have changed and no one learns instruments anymore … music is not taught in school, and they are too stringent and borderline and stick to instruments that most orchestras don't even use anymore … besides the point that there are not enough good players out there … and some orchestras are having a hard time filling in the numbers because of the costs involved.

Rachel's appreciation for music, specially many of the things that we consider "progressive", is without a doubt, one of the biggest and best shows, of what PROGRESSIVE meant to a generation of folks, that is being lost by some people, as yourself, today! You don't get it … do you? It's not just the instrument, it's everything else, and Rachel has been very successful in making these come alive … not to mention the one thing that stands out the most, that you might not see … SHE'S BLIND … but not blind to the music, which ought to signal you a thing or two.

It's really weird, and strange for my 68 years to hear someone say that the feeling is "artificial", specially these days, when most music is so danged artificial, and much of it gets a lot of publicity that shows how empty it all is, and simply look at this body and her titties, or fancy album cover, which supposedly makes the music better … if that is not artificial, I don't know what is … but criticizing someone for LOVING MUSIC AND DOING AN INCREDIBLE JOB BRINGING IT TO YOU AND I …. is insane.

Maybe we ought to lock you up listening to 10 different interpretations of THE RITE OF SPRING, leaving Tomita's to last of course, so we can have a decent course in music appreciation … and I'm not criticizing as much as I am hoping that you bring up your music appreciation level a little bit … someone doing the piece 40 to 50 years later, can not, in any shape, form or idea, even come close to the original … in fact, according to the many bootlegs at the time, even then too many things were different because they could not get all the stuff tuned correctly and properly 110% each and every day … so, your feeling "artificial" is kinda scary … (check out the Edgar Froese autobiography to read a heck of a lot more on this!!!!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 00:33
Keith was justifiably very proud of Pirates as was the whole band. Apparently prior to the release of Works, Keith took the composer Leonard Bernstein to the recording studio to have a listen to the rough version of it . Greg also happened to be present. Bernstein was less than impressed though and started comparing his own music to Beethoven. Greg, never one to 'suffer fools' chipped in 'Don't worry Lenny, no one will ever confuse your music with Beethoven'. Keith at that point was wishing he was somewhere else! ( as per Keith Emerson's auto bio 'Pictures Of An Exhibitionist')
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2019 at 19:01
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

-I don't know would any of you care about these covers if they were made by a trio of guys with a bandcamp-account?

I'd care about these covers if they were made by a trio of Cambodian octogenarian pool cleaners.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2019 at 18:46
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

-I don't know would any of you care about these covers if they were made by a trio of guys with a bandcamp-account?

I'd care about these covers if they were made by a trio of Cambodian octogenarian pool cleaners.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2019 at 18:36
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

-I don't know would any of you care about these covers if they were made by a trio of guys with a bandcamp-account?

The answer, should be YES ... but yeah, I agree with you some on this, since we seem to credit one person and immediately not the other ... as I said before, ELP today would be trashed silly, even here, and just considered a pretentious mess ... and no one would even give a cahoot about the classical styles and music they created, just like we kinda don't of many bands today, because our favorite is/was .... someone else.

However, when ANY piece of music is turned into a "classical piece" as Rachel has done, it shows its compositional side a lot more and how valuable the piece of music really is. And this should be a nice lesson for many bands, considering themselves "progressive" and if you unplug them, there is almost nothing there ... it's all sound and effects. It would kill half the metal folks which is the reason why almost none of them will even try an unplugged show ... the fans want the loud stuff and that is what they gonna get!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 13:51
100% with you, just don't get the love at all.
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