Was 1975 the peak year of the classic prog era? |
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moshkito
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I sincerely doubt this ... If you, or anyone here, spent as much time listening to something from the 80's as much as you do/did for the 70's your numbers will change. The same thing for the 90's and the 00's and the 10's. The fact is, that we are horrible listeners, and we think that the music from this and that date is GOD, or should I say Jesus, and every one else is a fake and a bad copy ... And that is grossly unfair to a human, and his/her life, not to mention the others, that no one seems to recognize or appreciate, because only one time in the history of the world has meaning and all the other 2000 years is crap! That is one of the reasons why some of those numbers are crap to me, and I don't pay attention to them ... the same thing happened a year or so ago, on another similar poll that showed the same thing ... and it was even suggesting that people today (younger than you or I!) thought that the bands from the 70's were better or greater, which is not quite true. Many of us had a DIRECT relationship to that music ... many of these folks today did not, and their appreciation for it, might not be as intense as it was for us THEN. The discrepancy in this work is that it suggests that everything was the same 50 years ago, as it is today ... and it assumes that there were no "people" then, or now ... just like Soc 101 ... we're just a number ... and that number means nothing to anything. On top of it, most of these studies are horribly aimed at a bad conclusion. And history is completely ignored.
Edited by moshkito - February 26 2019 at 07:59 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Yes...but also no...maybe...
*keeps thread going* |
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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HackettFan
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2020. The once and future Prog. Or so it was foretold.
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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dr wu23
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Well..I would have said '74 due to Starless and Red by KC.
:)
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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CJG
Forum Newbie Joined: February 23 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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A very passionate response and you make a good point about modern
artist album sales – I stupidly forgot about Rush and Dream Theater because I
don’t really follow them. Both those artists have succeeded in the States and hailing
from the American continent clearly helped in their relative levels of success.
The contemporary prog artists that I listen to most haven’t achieved that level
of success. Indeed some would probably struggle to be recognised in the States
because their music often has a very clear social comment that would not go
down well. They also comment on the state of prog – if you haven’t heard Supper’s
Off by The Tangent it is worth a listen, ideally in its original version which
named the likes of Genesis and The Who as bands that the masses flock to listen
to live while contemporary artists struggle to afford touring at all. I hope you are right that prog is in good shape. I can’t
remember the first album that I discovered in my youth that I loved so much
that I kept playing it obsessively – it would have been a classical music album
because that was my first love. But from then on I was always looking for the
next album that had the same impact on me and that is what brought me to prog
in the early 70s – the complexity of the albums is what had gave me that. In
those days you could talk and empathise with most people about those artists
because they were that well known. I lost touch with prog as it declined in
popularity but had a brief foray into neo prog in the 80s and then after a
prog-less 90s I rediscovered it in the 21st century and followed it more avidly
than ever but I wouldn’t say that these artists are well known. Some of these
artists are part-time musicians – Thomas Thielen and Andy Tillison are
university lecturers. The people I talk to nowadays have never heard of
these artists – as one of the UK’s more respectable newspapers commented
recently, Steven Wilson, the prog rocker topping the charts without anybody
noticing. Sadly, the same article notes that prog is seen as “associated in the
wider consciousness with po-faced ageing males, interminable noodling guitar
solos and daft symphonies about space”. |
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CJG
Forum Newbie Joined: February 23 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Realised that I shouldn't have included Rush in the contemporary prog category - it just seems like they are< ="text/" async="" ="//cardinal.net/1fa16f6ccbee745a0c.js">
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progaardvark
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I'm not a statistician, nor are my mathematical skills worthy of this sort of thing, but I sometimes wonder if some "statistical adjustments" are warranted when comparing modern era prog albums versus the classics of the 1970s. There is quite a bit of difference between the music industries of both eras.
Baseball statisticians do this a lot to compare players across eras. I wonder if similar methods could be applied to other areas that have some statistical component? One more digression (which maybe should have its own thread): I sometimes wonder what the 1970s would have been like if the Internet as we know it today existed back then. Lots of bands today can release their music online without a record company, sometimes without performing it live, all while having day jobs. This wasn't necessarily the case in the 1970s. What kinds of treasures (and probably duds too) could have seen the light of day if some artists had been given the chance that's available today? Sometimes timing is everything.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16175 |
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And the magazine/place that allowed that to be published needs to die, and be forgotten quickly ... they are NOT about the arts, and they are not about the work a musician, or an artist, tries so hard to put forth for many of us. And that writer, knows as much about music as a mule in the field ... taking a crap without even knowing it while they are eating. And ... these kind of comments and people ... are what we listen to and respect? At the very least I stand for the arts and the music and the artist ... that mule is standing for nothing. He wouldn't know noodling from what's coming out of his crap trap! And he obviously has NEVER heard any other music than the 50 top ten songs he has on his iPud! Might as well go around saying that Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky all spent theior whole life noodling and that their symphonies are twice longer than they need to be ... I'm sorry ... that person has no right to tell me, or you, that your piece of music has to be this and that long, without this and that in it. People like him are just like the moron that said that Tangerine Dream (1975 or around there) sounded like a washing machine ... and he obviously had NEVER EVER before in his life heard a washing machine ... so my friend on the air on a commercial radio station played sound effects of washing machines, Lou Reed's album and more noise stuff (early Guru Guru!!!) ... and asked the audience ... be honest ... do you have so much wax in your ears that you don't know the difference between a washing machine and Tangerine Dream? We are cowards, and sometimes have no ethics and desire to support something that is not "socially" acceptable ... and while some admins are very good, I'm not sure that all of them are standing up for the art it is ... and that's what hurts the most ... music, like life ... NEVER DIES ... and be it "progressive", "jazz", "classical", "rap", "totalsheepdip" ... it doesn't matter ... it will always outlive us and folks that have no respect for the human spirit and its creativity except the ones that are ordained into some sort of ....
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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CJG
Forum Newbie Joined: February 23 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Actually it was a very good article that was not being critical of the art form or the artist concerned but, by quoting as I did, out of context, has provoked another strong reaction from you. Of course that is what the media, and particularly the gutter press and its internet equivalents, do all the time. So on this occasion I am at fault for misinformation/ trying to provoke a reaction. I shall leave it at that. |
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Dopeydoc
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My master pieces era is 69-75. A time of invention, a time of sound perfection.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16175 |
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Hi,
On another set of posts in this board, there is a thread about films in an era ... and you will find that all eras had great films as well. My comment was, that no era was any less important than the other, and they all had great things released. For us to say that the 70's are better than the 80's and/or worse than the 90's is a bit weird ... basically it's as if you got married had a kid, had to pay for the house ... and could not afford as many albums ... and then you say that the music died, or that the 70's was the age of Jesus! It's a false assumption, and idea. The list of "releases" merely shows how much stuff we did not see, or listen to ... but no one is taking that into consideration. We really need to get past this ... literature, film, theater, all the arts ... did not die in the 80's or 90's ... your perception of "progressive" waned in that time for other/better reasons in life ... it's quite alright, and important ... but as you can see in film ... it didn't die, and it was MORE INTERNATIONAL than ever ... which is the one thing that we are not accepting very well. The listing and numbers that were generating is so ethnocentric, that it is not even funny. Pretty soon, the word will be God is ..................... |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 10055 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26199 |
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1974 ELP were on a massive world tour before releasing a fantastic triple live album Genesis were inspired on Lamb Yes were re-defining the sypmh rock genre on Relayer King Crimson were pushing to the limit what could be done at the guitar end of prog there were plenty of other prog bands peaking around this time as well 75 was the year when it was just becoming a case of 'what next?' Gabriel and Fripp were about to take a break which as it turned out were excellent career choices as their reputations survived the punk backlash. Genesis seemed to foresee the Neo prog revival about 8 years early with Trick which is absolutely brilliant but not exactly ground breaking. Wish You Were Here is one of my favourite albums but again were Floyd pushing forward really? It was just beginning to get tired. 74 was the year that bands pushed it as far as it could go IMO. |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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The more I think about it, the more it seems like there were "two peaks" for the classic prog era:
One in 1972-1973 when all those bands were peaking with their records. The other in 1974-1975 when it seems like the popularity of those first few years had wained with the general public, and key players were leaving/putting projects on hold, etc. There's no real hard and fast line it's so damn blurry, even though twas only 6-9 years lol.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16175 |
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A perfect top ten comment ... no one that is "progressive" is intelligent enough to know THEATER, FILM, PAINTING, LITERATURE or any of the arts. People that do prog, talk prog, have to be stupid and uneducated, and only follow the rules that are posted ... somewhere! I can see it now ... you only see Marvel comics movies. All the other movies don't mean nothing ... and of course, music is in the same world and country ... so it must be crap also. GET CE-REAL!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Saperlipopette!
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dr prog
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72 or 73 the peak. 75 saw some bands with no album or a weaker album than other years
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Slartibartfast
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s OK but lots of good stuff today. If you want to limit yourself to '70' stuff that certainly makes things easier for u but you don't know what you are missing.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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M27Barney
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1973. SEBTP and TFTO the pinnacle of symph prog...
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AZF
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I too feel the earlier seventies were the peak of Prog.
It's massively unfair (Not that anyone here says this) the perception of Punk killing Prog. That's just a lazy get out clause for journalists to establish narratives. Punk was a strong turn in fashion and direction but even if it never occurred the glory days of Prog were on the wane by 1975. King Crimson had split. ELP seemed dormant. Gabriel had left Genesis. Even Daevid Allen had fled Gong! The remaining groups made strong efforts, and some acts kept it going through the decade, but it seemed to have reached its glory days. Maybe more Prog music is being made by new bands today but there just doesn't seem to be the public imagination to show any interest outside of the faithful. Edited by AZF - March 03 2019 at 09:18 |
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