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Van Der Graaf or King Crimson ?
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Poll Question: Who you like the most.?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
26 [29.55%]
62 [70.45%]
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Braka View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

VdGG by a narrow but definite margin. I don't consider this to be a contradiction.


Yes, me too.  Though recently I'm listening to more KC, overall it's been more the other way around.

It also rather depends how I look at it. In the early classic prog era, I'd say KC had one stone cold classic, and several uneven works, whereas VDGG had at least three great albums.  But then VDGG went MIA and KC had three great albums. Then KC broke up and VDGG came back with another classic period.  Both bands have been retired more than they've been active - unless you count the Hammill solo albums as proxy VDGG albums.

I think when it comes down to it, there was always something about the psychology or the character of VDGG's stuff which made it feel intimate and private for me, whereas with KC I always feel less of a hardcore fan. There are more VDGG songs that make my teeth move about, although there probably as many or more
KC albums that I rate.

i also think I like the fact that Hammill is a leader and songwriter in the classic sense, whereas Fripp's visionary role in the band is primarily musical. He leaves the lyrics to others, a bit like Blackmore in Deep Purple / Rainbow  (though that's about the only point where that comparison holds up) and lyrics matter a lot to me.

Tough one.  Thankfully an unimportant distinction anyway.
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KC for sure
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verslibre View Drop Down
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KC
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OK.These 2 bands I respect more than I like them.They are pretty unique,but they just don't turn my crank.
They each have an album I really like,Red & Quiet Zone.Then there is the odd track here and there.But what VDGG don't have that KC did was some nice tracks with Greg Lake,so my choice goes to KC.
Shake & bake.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by gr8dane gr8dane wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

[QUOTE=gr8dane][QUOTE=AFlowerKingCrimson]

Ah,splendid.
Maybe you could help out the guy who did the Hansson Oldfield poll.
Looks like he could use some of your wisdom.

How do I know that's not just you with a different user name? Wink
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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VDGG asked Fripp to play on several lp's.....KC never asked VDGG to play on their's.....'nuff said?

;)
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Hard to think of a poorer argument.
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Points: 10377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2019 at 11:38
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

VDGG asked Fripp to play on several lp's.....KC never asked VDGG to play on their's.....'nuff said?

;)

on the other hand Robert Fripp said about Peter Hammill (in his biography): "what Jimi Hendrix did for the guitar Peter Hammill did for the vocals".

'nuff said


Edited by BaldJean - April 09 2019 at 11:41


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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^ I'm sure you could manage..........

btw...it was meant as joke...you did see the wink icon...if not come see me for an eye exam.
;)
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Barbu View Drop Down
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Points: 30845 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2019 at 12:17
No way! I'll never sit on your chair, dude.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by gr8dane gr8dane wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

[QUOTE=gr8dane][QUOTE=AFlowerKingCrimson]

Ah,splendid.
Maybe you could help out the guy who did the Hansson Oldfield poll.
Looks like he could use some of your wisdom.

How do I know that's not just you with a different user name? Wink

Guess there is only one way to find out.WinkLOLWink
Shake & bake.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Ha ha. I knew it. ;)
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Originally posted by Braka Braka wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

VdGG by a narrow but definite margin. I don't consider this to be a contradiction.


Yes, me too.  Though recently I'm listening to more KC, overall it's been more the other way around.

It also rather depends how I look at it. In the early classic prog era, I'd say KC had one stone cold classic, and several uneven works, whereas VDGG had at least three great albums.  But then VDGG went MIA and KC had three great albums. Then KC broke up and VDGG came back with another classic period.  Both bands have been retired more than they've been active - unless you count the Hammill solo albums as proxy VDGG albums.

I think when it comes down to it, there was always something about the psychology or the character of VDGG's stuff which made it feel intimate and private for me, whereas with KC I always feel less of a hardcore fan. There are more VDGG songs that make my teeth move about, although there probably as many or more
KC albums that I rate.

i also think I like the fact that Hammill is a leader and songwriter in the classic sense, whereas Fripp's visionary role in the band is primarily musical. He leaves the lyrics to others, a bit like Blackmore in Deep Purple / Rainbow  (though that's about the only point where that comparison holds up) and lyrics matter a lot to me.

Tough one.  Thankfully an unimportant distinction anyway.
"Happiness is real only when shared"
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jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
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Points: 5744 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2019 at 15:43
Dear gr8dane, 

You are putting me in front of a painful choice, that eaves blood. A choice that takes me to the bowels, because these two bands are inside my bowels. 

King Crimson and Van der Graaf Generator are probably my two favorite bands. Certainly those are the ones I listened to more (I mean the period 1969-1986, considering also the solo production of Hammill). Behind them there is a certain distance before other bands appear (unless they are considered solo authors like Wyatt and Buckley). Probably, at the bottom of the street, around the corner are Family and then Roxy Music. 

More at the bottom still there are the most renowned bands.
Listening to VDGG and KC gives me much more pleasure than listening to Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, Camel, Strawbs, Gentle Giant, PFM, Le Orme, Caravan, Gong (EL&P and Banco are far away, and even farther away are Rush). 

In the middle, in an area still poorly lit there are Pink Floyd, Magma, Comus, Soft Machine, Area, and many others (Kraut-rock and Progressive electronic are still to be deciphered by me). 

Listening to King Crimson means listening to the romantic epic of the first disc, but also the Schizoid Man scream: are intense, dilated emotions, that few bands know how to give so clear and direct. It means being blissful listening to the bolero of the Lizard suite, and then enchanted, and partly wounded by the abrasive violence of Fripp's guitar in Islands and Larks Tongues. That sound, geometric, oblique, of the period with Wetton left the marks on my skin. King Crimson lost the epic and lost the initial romanticism, have become a machine that produces a music that puts subjection, is the emblem of paranoia and obsession. 
They are emotions that become experiences in the flesh.

But with the Eighties, KC became too much cybernetic, cerebral, and cold. 

Van Der Graaf Generator in the same period of KC, years 1960-71, produced their absolute masterpieces. Where the KC are first romantic epic and then paranoia, VdGG are melancholy, cosmic solitude, spleen, which becomes existential anguish, they are a House With No Door and are also the incipit scary, thriller, of The Least We Can Do, are the electric sax of Jackson that tears the flesh in Killers, and finally they are the apocalypse of Lemmings and, most of all, of Man-Erg: their absolute masterpiece and one of the most beautiful and accomplished songs of the whole history of music, song that brings together the sublime paradise singing of Hammill with angst and fear of life: Killer lives inside me , Angel lives inside me, with cacophonic music that illustrates the nightmare of existence. 

(The return with Godbluff and Still Life will produce two albums without flaws, very good, but also much more accessible, less extreme, less exciting).

And this music is accompanied to perfection by the contrite singing, by the sacrificial lamb of Hammill, and his voice and his lyrics make the main difference between KC and the VDGG because the vocal part in KC music, apart in the first two records when there was Lake, has always been the weak point of the band, which in fact with time is thrown more and more towards instrumental pieces. 

I love the music accompanied by the singing, the emotional music, dramatic, which ignites intense emotions accompanied by an equally emotional and intense voice, which can describe with worthy words the music that sings, and this miracle takes place thanks to the sublime, distressed, melancholic, ghostly, frightening, neurotic, existential singing of Hammill, who knows how to combine a huge vocal talent with both committed and emotional lyrics. 
This talent lacks the music of KC, who don't have a poet singer of this magnitude. 

That's why VDGG. Hammill forever.
"Happiness is real only when shared"
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Regarding my musical diet over the years they both come and go in waves. Lately its arguably been more about King Crimson and Lizard - but I can't say its because I prefer the mentioned band over the other. Soon it may be VdGG's turn... I'm certain it will at some point.
I shouldn't quote myself. What I wrote wasn't even particularly interesting. But I ended up voting for VdGG. My gut feeling sort of told me to. In many ways Peter Hammill makes me feel that I have a closer relationship to their-or his music (both band and solo) than with Fripp. King Crimson still has a huge emotional impact on me on a level that very few bands has. But with VdGG (as in Hammill) its more close up and personal. Some of their "masterworks" were once almost lifechanging in terms of importance. But even the times when the music isn't that magnificent and-or the lyrics kind of immature - I still feel a strong relation. In some of his lesser solo outings (like PH7 and many later albums) I recognize myself in the average songwriting, straight forwardness and lack of genius... and sort of appreciate it in that way - if that makes any sense.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - April 10 2019 at 00:13
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

VDGG asked Fripp to play on several lp's.....KC never asked VDGG to play on their's.....'nuff said?

;)

on the other hand Robert Fripp said about Peter Hammill (in his biography): "what Jimi Hendrix did for the guitar Peter Hammill did for the vocals".

'nuff said



Great quote, I guess that's a great way to describe Peter Hamill as a vocalist. Too bad he didn't achieve the legendary stautus that Hendrix did (at least not in a mainstream way).
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progmatic View Drop Down
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I love Hammill's vocals on "Tonk" from David Cross' "Exiles". And I know "In A Foreign Town" is ranked low, but I absolutely LOVE his vocals on "Hemlock". So powerful!
PROGMATIC
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KC (up to Red).
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Both giants by the way. Can't vote against the Crimson King. Can vote against VDGG, just about.

See, now don't you wish there was a "both equally" option? Wink

I like the pressure to make a decision. It makes me think harder, and sometimes I come out with something I wasn't sure about when I started to think/listen.
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King Crimson
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