Steven Wilson a hater? |
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infandous
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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Back in 2005 or so, Wilson had some quite critical comments about the whole of modern prog (specifically mentioning The Flower Kings, Transatlanic, Dream Theater, and a few others I can't recall). At the time it pissed me off because I was not a big PTree or Wilson fan (though I liked a few albums). He ended up apologizing (more or less) in interviews and on that DT song. In retrospect, his points about those bands "rehashing the past" were not exactly inaccurate, he just came off as a dick for stating it the way he did. I'm a bigger fan of his solo work than I am of his work the PTree, but both have excellent material, obviously. There is no question he comes off as arrogant in interviews, but frankly it's probably because he has reason to be. He's the most successful musician (in terms of sales) to be more or less connected to the current prog scene. How many other modern prog related artists have two gold albums (from the past 10-15 years)? None that I know of. Of course, we all know sales does not equal great music, but I think he's aware of his popularity so it's not surprising if that goes to his head a little bit. He at least seems aware of it so he's not a complete ass. Also, at this point, I don't really care about personalities when it comes to music, I only care about the music. So while I certainly don't love everything he does and he's not my favorite artist (prog or otherwise), he does put out consistently high quality stuff and his tours are always excellent.
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infandous
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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Just FYI, Wilson does not do any remastering. He doesn't even get his own albums mastered at all. When he does remixing projects (like Crimson, Yes, and ELP) he recommends that they not be mastered at all, though I think those bands all have them remastered anyway to some degree, after he does the remix. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Tool's last two albums, Lateralus (2001) and 10,000 Days (2006), went platinum in the US. Platinum in the US is 1 million copies. Radiohead's Moon Shaped Pool, a 2016 release, was certified Gold in the US (some achievement in these days of trifling sales). In Rainbows went Gold too. Gold in USA means 500000 copies. Wilson's albums got certified Gold in the UK (speaking of his solo albums and not PT) which is 100000 copies. Muse have sold over 20 million copies worldwide. Mars Volta's Amputechture sold 400000 copies. I don't have sales figures for Frances The Mute but it was no.4 on the Billboard 200. Dream Theater broke the Billboard top 10 with both Black Clouds & Silver Linings and A Dramatic Turn of Events. Basically, this happens more often than you'd think. |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 41381 |
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What a clickbait of thread title. I don't like Systematic Chaos and Repentance is the weakest song, drags on for two long, I don't know what they were thinking. Am I a hater, too? So if Steven is not a DT fan he is a hater? How? And he apologized? To whom and why? Disliking and hating are not synonyms. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Actually in DT parlance, it's true. LaBrie dubs those who criticise his singing as haters. Well, he could, like, learn to enunciate words in the fifth octave or just avoid those notes altogether if he can't instead of singing above his range and forcing unintelligible somethings on us.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26199 |
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really when does that actually ever happen? I only have preferences. His first 4 solo albums are magnificient but I am now starting to lose interest in what he does. Sorry but was is the point of a forum if you can't state whether you like something or not? And also please read my original post when I made it very clear that he can do exactly what he likes.
Edited by richardh - August 17 2019 at 00:03 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16175 |
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The post was not exactly pointed at you ... it was more about the artist and his work ... I did READ and understand that you have no issues with most of his work! My main concern, would not be you at all ... but some of the other comments, that are far and far away improper than anything you or I said! You and I have no right, whatsoever, to tell an artist to use a light blue instead of a deep blue in his painting ... PERIOD! You can have an opinion, but ... really ... does that have anything to do with the painting? Nope! Same with music!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Mascodagama
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Life would be so much duller if musicians were obligated to be polite and only say nice things about each other's work. Also they'd have had to shoot Frank Zappa.
Personally I'd like to see this rather anaemic attempt at a beef escalate into TOTAL MUSICAL WARFARE, PROG STYLEE. Dream Theatre - come on lads, get the spelling right! - should issue a concept double CD devoted to character assassination of Wilson under the title of The Raven That Insisted On Singing, Even Though Everyone Just Wished It Would Shut The f**k Up. Wilson would retaliate with a mournful ballad about how sorry he feels for La Brie's wife because he wears bad shoes, is named after a deliquescent cheese, and has a face like a maple-glazed ham. This would go to No. 1 all over the world (except in Uzbekistan where they are insane DT fans and would burn Wilson in effigy during unprecedented scenes of rioting). Edited by Mascodagama - August 17 2019 at 08:09 |
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
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Todd
Special Collaborator RPI / Heavy Prog Team Joined: December 19 2007 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3472 |
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^
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Steve Wilson is overrated.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17501 |
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I'm not sure what you mean, all albums need to be mastered. Yes the bulk of what he does is a remix usually from the original master tapes (if available) on JTull, Yes and KC. He has taken some of his older PT issues and simply remastered to reduce compression and or EQ ie Deadwing and InAbsentia recent reissues. Once a recording has been mixed the next step is mastering which is usually volume, EQ, compression before the recording is cut for vinyl or digital. SW does remaster based on the liner notes from many of his albums.... InAbsentia: "Remastered by Steven Wilson in November 2017." "The copyright of this sound recording is owned by Snapper Music Ltd. ℗ 2002 Snapper Music © 2018 Snapper Music " Stupid Dream: Sticker reads: Heavyweight vinyl, 2 LP gatefold edition of the 1999 classic remixed & remastered by Steven Wilson Signify: "Remastered 2003 by SW" notes also state "Producer, mixed by SW" |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
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Holy moly that made me spit my beer at the local gyros house earlier today! Thanks for that Simon - I’m not sure I knew I needed that...but I certainly did. Also there are loads of less than sympathetic folks in prague rock and just music in general...that seemingly fly under the radar for horrendous manners because...what?...they played in Yes/Genesis/Chin Fingsome? The top of the crop though were The Beatles. Most of us love their music but if you read up on some of the many many musicians who’ve played with them over the years you also have to swallow quite a few camels. Reading about how George basically stole Krause’s music for his ‘boundary-pushing’ electronic album..and then excusing himself by letting him know that he was a Beatle...well that vehemently pulled one of my boyhood heroes off his piedestal for good. We attach ourselves emotionally to the music and more often than not tend to forget it’s human beings behind it all...and they’re flawed..which again is what makes us so damn beautiful and frustrating all at the same time Edited by Guldbamsen - August 19 2019 at 08:16 |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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The beatles? Bunch of thieving scousers. What did you expect???
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Catcher10
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what r the beatles??
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Slartibartfast
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I don't think he is a hater but more of an appreciator. Sometime he may make off the cuff comments that the regrets. If it weren't for his appreciation of Radiohead on his Pordcupine Tree site I would not have checked them out so I can cut him some slack. Plus he seems kinda like a younger prog obsessed brother that I never had. I have a sister, but she's not a prog freak. My older brother got me into prog though.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16175 |
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And SW would come off like a young kid when it came to FZ and his well known escapades into his opinions. For starters, you can always put down your guitar and CONDUCT the band the rest of the show ... yeah, I bet that SW has the ability to even consider that option! Like FZ, I don't think it is "hate" ... it's more opinion than anything else, and I kinda think that using the word "hate" is a bit harsh ... SW is smart enough to know that spreading "hate" is not a good thing. He's been around the world, and seen a lot ... and I'm pretty sure he knows better! But at times, there are some fans that you really want to ask them to leave, because at times, it is getting ridiculous. But then, this is the commercial/industrial days of rock music ... the institution and the conglomerate is more important and some of the fans are their spokespeople ... and how the band handles it often defines how good and intelligent the band is. Try that on a Bob Dylan ... or some other giant. You'll regret it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20477 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26199 |
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As always it comes down to what you define as 'prog'. Wilson has never been impressed with bands that sound like they are trying to recreate the past. He has managed to create his own little niche quite successfully and fair play for that. Should we listen to his opinions or his music? I would rather do the latter. Mosh touches a little bit on 'talent'. Normally I'm drawn to people with flair and talent but with Wilson this is a lot harder to define. He can write a song and has fair ability on guitar and a very unremarkable voice. Somehow he has managed to make himself one of the most important leaders of the prog community without even appearing to like it that much. He is a very clever guy and I think he is very 'modern' in the way he understands how the music industry works. Of course sheer hard work never does any harm. He has done it the hard way I believe but also in an the old fashioned way of building a following and going out playing live. Yep he is okay in my book.
Edited by richardh - August 20 2019 at 23:55 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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It's funny, because I feel like Wilson is the epitome of a prog snob. Everything about the guy rubs me the wrong way. He's the archetypal definition of a pretentious artists to me, and one of the reasons I'm sure most people don't get into prog in the first place. His music and production sounds sterile and lifeless. It reminds me of Dream Theatre; a band that should be way better than it is yet somehow manages to constantly sound sterile and boring, despite their amazing skillsets.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16175 |
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All you have to do is go see LET IT BE again, and the hero thing dies out real quick ... and there are/were some wonderful things in it ... a lot of folks hated John and Yoko, yet, watching the two waltz in the film ... you can't help go ... that's neat! I can remember some folks at the theater saying ... that's stupid ... folks don't waltz to rock music! How's that for being stoned? All of the Beatles had said and showed a lot of stupid things ... and their comments were, sometimes, taken out of context, too ... go listen to the 7 Christmas shows, so you can see how they easily can distort a word or sentence into something else ... something that was a part of comedy with THE GOONS, which all 4 of them were aware of, as they were on the air through 1964 and then in repeats for at least 10 more years. These guys knew a lot more than we know, which might even suggest that George made that comment about being a Beatle ... a bit out of English humor ... something that we would not understand, and in fact, a lot of folks love to say that it's not funny ... they would rather see the cardboard stage shows with a laugh track so the American audience knows when to laugh! In George's case, he probably had a giggle rolling on the floor at that one! But we think it is serious ... and while it may not sound as pretty or as good, and George was known to have a mean streak (according to Patti's book), in the end, I'm not sure that George would use his ego that far ... it would render all his eastern bullsh*t into the crapper real quick ... like saying he was a fake, anyway ... and I'm not sure that George was a total fake. Even though I think that Patti did not care for it. I kinda think she was too much of a doll ... and there was a side here that was not for dolls or toys. Or could be hidden in makeup!
Edited by moshkito - August 21 2019 at 08:55 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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