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Update on my Gentle Giant hatred

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dougmcauliffe View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 31 2019 at 21:14
After my last thread, I was surprised to find most people were understanding. A handful of people recommended i try acquiring the taste. So I did, and damn, this album is awesome. Honestly can’t point to a weak track. So uh... I guess you guys cured me, gonna try three friends next.

Thank you

Had a similar experience with Tull, couldn’t get into anything till I heard “Stand Up”. From there I was able to get into the rest of their stuff.

Edited by dougmcauliffe - July 31 2019 at 21:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2019 at 21:49
If you did like Aquiring the Taste, I think you should go with the debut next. Those two ones are rather similar, and both are my favourites. And both feature the exact same line-up. For 3 friends they changed the drummer, and the sound started getting more difficult (for me) to get into.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2019 at 22:08
You backward redneck.  Happy to hear it.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 00:07
Yep the first 2 go together and were even re-issued as double CD set interestingly. Three Friends just doesn't fit with anything else they did imo. It feels almost unfinished but it does have some seriously stunning moments and Schooldays is one of my favourite GG tracks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 01:51
The first two albums are a pair; I suggest you listen to those. Three Friends is fantastic but be prepared for the bitch slap that is Octopus after that one! Glad you're experimenting with your tastes, sir! That's what PA is all about for me.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 07:32
That's great to hear. Personally, I'd also recommend the debut more than Three Friends. I never liked that one much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 10:04
Acquiring the Taste is my favourite. I recommend the debut and Three Friends, but I also would recommend trying the debut next. I'm guessing you heard Octopus and didn't like it, but the Advent of Panurge off that works as a companion piece to Pantagruel's Nativity off of Acquiring the Taste (that said, I prefer Panta...) Gentle Giant led me to read François Rabelais' Pantagruel and Gargantua.

I have especially loved Gentle Giant's first three albums, but am not so keen on subsequent ones (Octopus and In a Glass House would be my next favourites). That said, there was a time when I loved GG's first eight. Gentle Giant was pretty much love at first listen for me, and it was my favourite band in 2005, but I did quite quickly tire of GG (I may have just burnt out on it). I appreciate it more again, but I'll never hold it in as high esteem as I once did. It can feel rather too formulaic and inorganic, I find, but it's not all the same. It can be very beautiful and melodious and at other times dissonant and jarring. It is quirky, and though it would take some chops, it's one that would be fun to parody/ emulate.



So yes, Acquiring the Taste is my favourite GG album, followed by Three Friends and the debut. I actually do feel like putting on Three Friends right now. Love "Schooldays", and when the title track would come on it would give me shivers.

Discovering GG and VdGG aboout 15 years ago helped pave the way for many more great discoveries for me, and helped to prime me for really getting into RIO/Avant music, Magma, and the like. That said, I've always appreciated quirky music -- I think discovering Laurie Anderson's Big Science in the 80s was an album that helped to set me on a quirky path.

After this, if you haven't tried it already, you might be ready for some Magma, (and Henry Cow, Art Bears, U Totem and Miriodor and others down the road). As For Jethro Tull, Stand Up is my favourite.


Edited by Logan - August 01 2019 at 10:09
Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 10:34
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

After my last thread, I was surprised to find most people were understanding. A handful of people recommended i try acquiring the taste. So I did, and damn, this album is awesome. Honestly can’t point to a weak track. So uh... I guess you guys cured me, gonna try three friends next.

Thank you

Had a similar experience with Tull, couldn’t get into anything till I heard “Stand Up”. From there I was able to get into the rest of their stuff.


----I see now this your new thread on GG! So, I copy here the message I've just posted on the old thread:


I’ve really tried with these guys but I’m just not hearing what everyone else is. The only song that doesn’t give me a headache is proclamation. When I’m listening I realize their music is very unique but overall I just think... it’s bad. I’ve listened to power and the glory, octopus and in a glass house and free hand all a couple times now and I just can’t get into it. I can usually get into most prog, I hated van der graaf on first listen but now that’s a favorite, but with them I feel there is plenty of movement in their songs, with gentle giant I feel like they play 2 riffs a song and then do some uncomfortable vocal harmonies. I think so sincere may be one of the worst songs I’ve ever heard.

Spock’s Beard and Neal Morse imitating gentle giant is more enjoyable then gentle giant to me

Does anyone else have a similar experience with other popular artists?[/QUOTE]

GG are a group that has the merit and defect of condensing into medium-length songs (they have never written suites, not even mini-suites) many peculiarities in which they are masters: odd rhythm, polyphonic singing, electronic music, dissonances to keyboards, medieval melodic passage, blues guitar solos, violins that play classical music but often dissonant. The melody, when present, is never fully developed, insisted, dilated: indeed, it is soon contrasted with a dissonant musical passage, a contrapuntal moment, just look at Think Of Me With Kindness (Octopus), one of their most popular songs melodic and simple. 

This attitude is kept under control in their first two albums, in my opinion the best, because more related to rockblues: there their continuous variations are well integrated with the rock structure of the songs (consider the 4 songs longer on the first albums, all masterpieces), there are beautiful guitar solos (the three longest songs of Acquiring the Taste are among their masterpieces) and a song like Funny Ways (first album) shows how to make beautiful and engaging music by integrating rock with a score neoclassical with violins (from there they will try to repeat the miracle, putting at least one symphonic song with violins on each album) but they will no longer be able to write a similar masterpiece. 

From the third album, Three Friends, with a single masterpiece that draws on their initial formula (Peel the Paint), they will become math rock and pedantic, leaving more and more rock melody and power. Octopus is a partial exception, because it features songs inspired melodically and simple, so it turns out to be the easiest listening (also appreciated by classic-rock lovers) but by the subsequent In A Glass House (considered the best in the PA chart because, I suppose, "very progressive" as a structure but in my opinion it is the most overrated, the coldest and calculated and least inspired), GG exasperate their formula studied at the table, math and brain, to enter continuous variations and dissonances on the theme, giving up beautiful melodies and great rockblues pieces with Green's solos, and from there on they become less and less melodic, less and less rock and increasingly cold and cerebral (more prog, in a certain sense), achieving good results only when inspired by good melodies, as in some songs of The Power and The Glory and Free Hand and Missing Piece, not surprisingly you like Proclamation: it is one of the most immediate, clear and linear, with an easy melody and a good central bridge. 

From Interview included, it ends the compositional vein and apart from the second side of Missing Piece they get away with their instrumental ability. 

We may add that Derek Shulman has a beautiful voice but tends to sing in a rigid way, sometimes too screaming, not soft and tender, which exasperates even more the frantic musical pieces and with constant changes. Better the first 4 albums where Derek's voice alternated with that of Phil and the wonderful voice of Kerry, present mainly in the medieval melodic pieces. In the first 4 there are also winds. 

It is clear that to please their music must please these continuous changes studied at the table but I would advise you to listen to the their debut album and to Acquiring the Taste and to listen again Octopus, which are the three who, in my opinion, suffer less than the "prog excesses" that have forcibly enter into their music.  PS My fave is the first, "Gentle Giant". 


Edited by jamesbaldwin - August 01 2019 at 10:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 10:46
Free Hand is maybe their most accessible prog album. The later albums(last three) weren't pure prog imo but were also accessible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2019 at 02:50
Who would believe you now that your ears are free, that your ears are free...

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2019 at 20:43
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Free Hand is maybe their most accessible prog album. The later albums(last three) weren't pure prog imo but were also accessible. 

It is thought by many that their last albums were closer to a style that suited the ears of some FM radio dial stations ... the sad thing is, while a couple of things did get played, the amount of time it lasted was less and less valuable and important, as their early material had been.

I don't think that it is fair to criticize the artist's choice ... but maybe the time of them being together and creating new things had just about run its course, and creating things that were more FAMILIAR, for the ears of the fans, was easier, than having to slosh through something new and that would take far more time and effort than most members were now willing to allow for!

While still nice albums, they are nowhere near the other albums of theirs in my book ... still a lovely, and far out band, without question, but I'm not sure I would suggest those albums for starters, IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, because they are far less experimental and entertaining as the other material they have.

It's just weird to me that many fans, here, select the music that is closer to the norm, and closer to the conventional staff musically, than their earlier material that challenged the status quo of your ears and music appreciation ... for me, that challenge far outweighs anything else ... including comments here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2019 at 20:58
Ripaille


Edited by dr prog - August 19 2019 at 14:33
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2019 at 21:07


Edited by dr prog - August 19 2019 at 14:32
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2019 at 10:11
I find the first three GG albums to be tentative and muddy-sounding. From Octopus to Interview they were as good as any band I've ever heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2019 at 13:18
Thread inspired me to listen to Acquiring the Taste again. Liking it better this time around , maybe it just took me a while to......well you know. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2019 at 13:23
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

I find the first three GG albums to be tentative and muddy-sounding. From Octopus to Interview they were as good as any band I've ever heard.
 

Are you referring to the vinyl or CD releases of the first three? I have the Line Records CD's of the first three and don't find it muddier than any other release between 1970 and 1972. Now the One Way CD of Freehand is awful. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2019 at 02:22
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

I find the first three GG albums to be tentative and muddy-sounding. From Octopus to Interview they were as good as any band I've ever heard.

I can't disagree with you here.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2019 at 03:08
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

I find the first three GG albums to be tentative and muddy-sounding. From Octopus to Interview they were as good as any band I've ever heard.
 

Are you referring to the vinyl or CD releases of the first three? I have the Line Records CD's of the first three and don't find it muddier than any other release between 1970 and 1972. Now the One Way CD of Freehand is awful. 
 
I'll retain the tentative part of his comment (the rest may differ from one release to the next), and if I agree that they were still finding their definitive style with their first albums, I tend to have more sympathy for the debut and even ATT, as 3F is probably (IMHO) their weaker album until Missing Piece (not included)
 
But my fave three would be Glass House, Octopus and Interview, as I'm not that keen about TP&TG and FH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2019 at 11:51
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Yep the first 2 go together and were even re-issued as double CD set interestingly. Three Friends just doesn't fit with anything else they did imo. It feels almost unfinished but it does have some seriously stunning moments and Schooldays is one of my favourite GG tracks.

Their attempt to write a Kinks album IMO (lyrically / thematically I mean, not musically). To me it's the least interesting of their classic period albums; I think the focus on storytelling within conventional song structures detracted from their usual musical inventiveness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2019 at 01:52
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Yep the first 2 go together and were even re-issued as double CD set interestingly. Three Friends just doesn't fit with anything else they did imo. It feels almost unfinished but it does have some seriously stunning moments and Schooldays is one of my favourite GG tracks.

Their attempt to write a Kinks album IMO (lyrically / thematically I mean, not musically). To me it's the least interesting of their classic period albums; I think the focus on storytelling within conventional song structures detracted from their usual musical inventiveness.

Three Friends always felt the most out of place for me. I think you nailed it; they were emulating the Kinks, consciously or not (hey, great band to emulate!).

Workin' all day-ay! is still catchy as hell though.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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