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" Big Six " 1980 and forward

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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 12:18
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I didn't filter out anyone, what would you like me to filter out? If I filter it to Canterbury, Crossover, Eclectic, Heavy, Neo, Folk, Italian & Symph after '79 then Spocks Beard come in at #42 and The Flower Kings come in at #99!



I realize it's cheating but at least TFK make it in. I think if you look at their peers who are under the same category they probably do pretty good. There's a lot of people on  here who think TFK are derivative(same could be said for SB)but they do have more ratings than a lot of newer bands. I think during the 90's and early 2000's they were one of the key bands carrying the torch. I admit I may very well be behind the game so it's quite possible that they aren't currently viewed as important as they once were. Still, I think they are an important band in prog's history and haven't been as forgotten as some other bands. I could say the same for Ozric Tentacles though but there's a lot more people on here who are fans of or even know about TFK than OT. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 04 2019 at 12:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 12:55
I had mentioned my 3 undisputed as Marillion, Dream Theater, and Porcupine Tree. After seeing many other options, I think the ones that might be considered too are Flower Kings, Spocks Beard, and Anglagard (however, I barely know music from the first two).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 13:02
I agree with your top 3 and would argue you can't leave out Opeth given their 5 top 100 albums and 7 albums with more than 1000 ratings.  5th and 6th would be up for grabs for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 14:26
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I could say the same for Ozric Tentacles though but there's a lot more people on here who are fans of or even know about TFK than OT. 

I prefer OT over TFK. For me, it was about first impressions. I heard a couple of OT songs on a prog radio show in the early 90's and it stuck. I got the albums Strangitude and Jurassic Shift. Both of which I still play. With TFK, I got a recommendation in '98 or '99 and got Stardust We Are. I thought it was well played but something about it didn't stick with me. Rarely have played it since. Every few years, I see it in my CD case and give it a try. 


Edited by mathman0806 - December 04 2019 at 14:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 14:28
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I agree with your top 3 and would argue you can't leave out Opeth given their 5 top 100 albums and 7 albums with more than 1000 ratings.  5th and 6th would be up for grabs for me.

From glancing at the responses, it seems like Marillion, Dream Theater, and Porcupine Tree are near consensus for 3 of the 6 spots. 

 Opeth nearly made my big six. I would have no problem due to their popularity, ratings, and influence. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 14:32
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I didn't filter out anyone, what would you like me to filter out? If I filter it to Canterbury, Crossover, Eclectic, Heavy, Neo, Folk, Italian & Symph after '79 then Spocks Beard come in at #42 and The Flower Kings come in at #99!



I realize it's cheating but at least TFK make it in. I think if you look at their peers who are under the same category they probably do pretty good. There's a lot of people on  here who think TFK are derivative(same could be said for SB)but they do have more ratings than a lot of newer bands. I think during the 90's and early 2000's they were one of the key bands carrying the torch. I admit I may very well be behind the game so it's quite possible that they aren't currently viewed as important as they once were. Still, I think they are an important band in prog's history and haven't been as forgotten as some other bands. I could say the same for Ozric Tentacles though but there's a lot more people on here who are fans of or even know about TFK than OT. 

Ozrics are actually a good example, I like them a lot, they've got a bunch of albums in the high three's and a couple in the low 4's and most have several hundred ratings. Similar case to TFC's & SB. Personally I'd never put them in a Big 6 as they are pretty niche.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 14:44
If it's about popularity, influence, ratings, and rankings, then I think Nogbad's got the winning list:

Marillion
Dream Theater
Änglagård
Porcupine Tree
Opeth
Riverside

P.S. Änglagård may have only three important albums (as opposed to the "one" somebody mentioned), but their members have contributed to some other amazing albums and bands. 

P.P.S. If Steven Wilson were connect to or were to replace Porcupine Tree, that would be okay, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 14:51
Neal Morse/Spock's Beard
Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree
Marillion
Dream Theater
Opeth
Big Big Train


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 16:06

1) Marillion

2) Talk Talk

3) Tori Amos

4) Spock's Beard

5) Swans

6) Dream Theater
"Happiness is real only when shared"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 16:59
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

If it's about popularity, influence, ratings, and rankings, then I think Nogbad's got the winning list:

Marillion
Dream Theater
Änglagård
Porcupine Tree
Opeth
Riverside

P.S. Änglagård may have only three important albums (as opposed to the "one" somebody mentioned), but their members have contributed to some other amazing albums and bands. 

P.P.S. If Steven Wilson were connect to or were to replace Porcupine Tree, that would be okay, too.

Hmmm. Riverside look good when going through lists and ratings, but I haven't heard any enthusiasm about them here on the forum or elsewhere (although I might not look in the right places), as for the other five. So I think they should be replaced. I'd bring in Cardiacs instead. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 18:24
Smile I would too but if not Riverside then probably IQ

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - December 04 2019 at 20:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 18:28
A prog website(such as progressive ears) with users that doesn't use this website won't have the ratings on here as a reference on here so they obviously would not agree with the criterion you guys are using. But in my admittedly stubborn opinion these are the bands that should be on there: TFK,SB, OT, PT, IQ and Marillion. For me prog metal would be a separate list. If Opeth do a few more less metal and more prog rockish albums they could easily go on the list too. BBT and Pendragon should also be considered contenders. I won't deny the importance of the bands on the above lists and you guys are doing it very methodical so your lists are probably more definitive but hey we all have our own opinions.  Oh yeah, I forgot Anglagard. They are definitely a contender. It's too bad it can only be six bands. I like Djam Karet too but they are probably even more forgotten than Ozric Tentacles. Tongue

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 04 2019 at 18:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 19:14
Yeah I agree with others that Spock's Beard pretty much needs to be there. Then I guess Marillion, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree.. and two others, doesn't matter who.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 21:34
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Marillion
IQ
Dream Theater
Spock's Beard/Neal Morse
The Flower Kings
Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson


Take out IQ (not that there're bad) and insert Big Big train, you've got it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 21:57
Actually Opeth's In Cauda Venenum is such a brilliant album, it just about pushes Opeth into the top six prog rock bands around. Don't know who they push out though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2019 at 00:38
Anglagard's only important album is Hybris albeit a monster. The more recent album was just a poor copy of it and showed zero progression in 20 odd years. All Traps On Earth though was a brilliant album and if released as Anglagard that would be different.
Personally I would love to include Par Lindh Project as the first 3 albums are all great ( and different) . But it would be a stretch admittedly.
The case for IQ is strong and they have endured incredibly well. The latest is one of their very best but you also have The Wake , Ever and The Road Of Bones on top of that.
The Flower Kings are important and I am going to see them on Sunday so I like them to some extent but the lack of any truly signature albums bothers me. Stardust We Are and Unfold The Future are okay but there is just too much filler for my liking. 

If we have a top six prog musicians post 1979 (and ignoring the fact that Kaipa were going in the seventies!) then Stolte would be in there.

Roine Stolte
Nick D'Virgilio
Jordan Rudess
John Jowitt
Mikael Akerfeldt
Steven Wilson




 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2019 at 00:38
I Reluctantly left out Opeth/Riverside...both should be in a top list of heavier prog....also Ayreon...and Symphony X...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2019 at 02:46
Phideaux is a huge act...sad to be so overlooked (not only here, for what I reckon)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2019 at 05:43
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

Phideaux is a huge act...sad to be so overlooked (not only here, for what I reckon)

I had them just outside the top six based on rankings, they should certainly be in the discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2019 at 06:55
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

A prog website(such as progressive ears) with users that doesn't use this website won't have the ratings on here as a reference on here so they obviously would not agree with the criterion you guys are using. But in my admittedly stubborn opinion these are the bands that should be on there: TFK,SB, OT, PT, IQ and Marillion. For me prog metal would be a separate list. If Opeth do a few more less metal and more prog rockish albums they could easily go on the list too. BBT and Pendragon should also be considered contenders. I won't deny the importance of the bands on the above lists and you guys are doing it very methodical so your lists are probably more definitive but hey we all have our own opinions.  Oh yeah, I forgot Anglagard. They are definitely a contender. It's too bad it can only be six bands. I like Djam Karet too but they are probably even more forgotten than Ozric Tentacles. Tongue

Don't you think such a list should represent the variety of prog genres? One can do separate lists for all kinds of stuff, but a "big six" from my point of view would make more sense if it'd represent a wider spectrum including let's say prog metal and the like, math/post rock, and what went on in RIO from 1980. Do we have bands that started post 1979 that cover remotely as much ground as the very eclectic King Crimson or Jethro Tull, say? If not, it surely shouldn't all be Neo or Symphonic...


Edited by Lewian - December 05 2019 at 06:55
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