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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 12695 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2020 at 21:27
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

We all know different things. I'm sure I know things about music that you don't know. How about we stop turning this into some sort of prog pissing contest?

I disagreed with many of your statements, and pointed out in detail where you were wrong. It's rather daft to post a thread with the title "Almost prog but not quite", make misstatements about bands based on a lack of musical experience, and then expect folks to just nod their heads. Hilarious.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Surely if an album has a song about mythology, sci fi or psychology in an odd time signature then that song makes the album part prog?
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Points: 3426 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2020 at 07:54
Is this the old "is this artist Prog?" debate in a new guise?

If so, I submit XTC.
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Points: 11415 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2020 at 08:13
It's perhaps unfortunate that regardless of the original premise of the thread (which I don't pretend to know) the inference will inevitably be drawn that 'Almost Prog but not quite' is qualitative i.e. that if these artists were more compliant with the genre definitions offered on PA, they would be considered Pedigree Prog breed rather than mongrel cross breeds of various other genres. When did we become the Crufts of Music?
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Points: 16199 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2020 at 09:32
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Surely if an album has a song about mythology, sci fi or psychology in an odd time signature then that song makes the album part prog?

You mean like Genesis or Rush? Wink


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 07 2020 at 10:06
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 16199 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2020 at 09:42
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

It's perhaps unfortunate that regardless of the original premise of the thread (which I don't pretend to know) the inference will inevitably be drawn that 'Almost Prog but not quite' is qualitative i.e. that if these artists were more compliant with the genre definitions offered on PA, they would be considered Pedigree Prog breed rather than mongrel cross breeds of various other genres. When did we become the Crufts of Music?

Well, I don't really agree with everything on here being prog. Crossover prog seems like a silly label in some ways. Many of the crossover bands seem to be "art rock" to me. If all art rock is really just the same as prog(ie full blown prog) then why even bother with differentiating between the two.

Anyway, some people are taking this a bit too seriously. It's just meant to be a way of discussing the genre and differentiating between what we consider to be prog vs what we feel doesn't what quite make it. It doesn't have to be a science and it really wasn't meant for anyone to express their musical elitism either(that's best left for that other prog site).I mentioned bands who I felt based on my experience with them didn't over all reach the levels of full blown prog. That's it. I'm not a student of music theory and I'm not a professional musician. I feel I know a lot about prog and music in general so I feel qualified to have an opinion on this regardless of what anyone says. However, while I don't mind a friendly discussion in the matter I'm not going to directly respond to trolls(anymore). Ok, carry on. Wink 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 07 2020 at 09:44
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Jzrk View Drop Down
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Points: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jzrk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 20:53
The original Journey first two or three albums may qualify for this
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Points: 3136 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2020 at 09:23
The first album by Rush is definately heavy blues rock like Zep, then the band introduced more and more symphonic influences. 2112 track is definately prog metal, and the next two albums were defibately heavy prog with symph influences...
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Points: 20503 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2020 at 10:29
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

The first album by Rush is definately heavy blues rock like Zep, then the band introduced more and more symphonic influences. 2112 track is definately prog metal, and the next two albums were defibately heavy prog with symph influences...
I posted a thread on PA years ago questioning if 70s Rush was better off labeled as prog metal. You think I drew a mustache on the Mona Lisa. The whole site thought that I was incredulous!

Edited by SteveG - January 16 2020 at 10:32
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 16199 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2020 at 14:18
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

The first album by Rush is definately heavy blues rock like Zep, then the band introduced more and more symphonic influences. 2112 track is definately prog metal, and the next two albums were defibately heavy prog with symph influences...

Nope. Impossible since prog metal didn't exist at the time. Proto prog metal maybe(but probably more like heavy prog) but they weren't even the first to do that.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 16 2020 at 14:19
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20503 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2020 at 03:56
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

The first album by Rush is definately heavy blues rock like Zep, then the band introduced more and more symphonic influences. 2112 track is definately prog metal, and the next two albums were defibately heavy prog with symph influences...

Nope. Impossible since prog metal didn't exist at the time. Proto prog metal maybe(but probably more like heavy prog) but they weren't even the first to do that.
I must say that your posts do give me a chuckle. The subgenres of heavy prog and proto prog were not around in the 70s either. Or the 80s. These genres were assigned well after the fact. The same could have been done for Rush with prog metal.
 
 


Edited by SteveG - January 17 2020 at 03:59
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mcentra View Drop Down
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Points: 27 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mcentra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2020 at 17:17
I'm one of those who interpret everything I like as " prog". 🙃
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timeaisis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2020 at 12:56
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

[QUOTE=The Dark Elf]Sometimes Genesis can be proggy. But they throw in a lot of pop tunes. So I can't really equate them as full-blown prog.

Can be proggy? Really? If someone asked me what progressive rock sounded like I would tell them to listen to early Genesis.
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Points: 2037 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2020 at 07:34
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

The first album by Rush is definately heavy blues rock like Zep, then the band introduced more and more symphonic influences. 2112 track is definately prog metal, and the next two albums were defibately heavy prog with symph influences...

Nope. Impossible since prog metal didn't exist at the time. Proto prog metal maybe(but probably more like heavy prog) but they weren't even the first to do that.

There are people who consider early Rush to be a progenitor of prog metal. Much of Caress of Steel is proto-prog metal to me. 2112(track only) too. Cygnus X-1 as well. Might throw in By Tor and the Snow Dog as well.
 
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