Prog Fans in Our 60's

In 72 I discovered Hawkwind's music at a record shop in South Jersey. Shortly after I discovered Can, Guru Guru, Amon Duul II. Then Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Cosmic Jokers, Neu, Ashra Temple and at the age of 16...that's basically what I liked listening to . Maybe because it was new to me at that time. It was next to impossible sharing that music experience with others and I think that can be attributed to the area I lived in.


Most of the albums I collected were import albums by Krautrock bands and it was difficult to find them. The Billingsgate label released just a few Krautrock albums in the U.S. along with Passport Records. Everyone I knew in New Jersey who were fans of Yes or Genesis didn't approve of Krautrock . It didn't matter if it had the sound of Electronic Music or Space Rock ..they hated it and did not want to hear it. For example..." What is this?" "This is too repetitive " "Don't play this"

As soon as I entered the big city...then I started meeting people that listened to bands like Guru Guru, Popol Vuh...etc


Sometime...in the late 70s or early 80s...there was Electronic Music coming out of Mexico. Jorge Reyes, Carlos Alverado, Alquimia, Jose Fernandez Ledesma, and several other unknowns. They had all played in Progressive Rock bands, but then pursued Electronic Music and their music was played on WXPN Star's End after hours program along with their recordings being distributed as bird helpings in the U.S.

Then there were rumors that an actual Electronic Music scene existed in Mexico during this time. I was informed of this by friends I had in Philadelphia who followed Electronic Music. I don't know how true that is. I do know that it would be a beautiful experience to look at the nightsky in Mexico while hearing Electronic Music. There were performances of Electronic Music in Mexico and or gatherings as such that people who lived there enjoyed it. There actually could have been a Electronic Music scene there...but I've never been able to confirm it.

David_D wrote: Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: Most of the albums I collected were import albums by Krautrock bands ....  Any particular reason for why you mostly were into Krautrock, Jacob?

Probably because of the sounds. The electronics. There seemed to be a number of bands using electronics along with musicians that started out in a band and went completely Electronic. Such as Edgar Froese and Klaus Schulze being the best example..however there were others. Most of them performed at the Zodiak.



As a teenager I put more value in the term "Space Rock". I felt that the idea for Space Rock originally derived from Sci-Fi themes in the early 60s. This style of guitar riffing originated in themes like "The Outer Limits", "The Twilight Zone", "Mission Impossible " etc..then by 67' it was once again heard in British Psychedelic Rock in songs like "Lucifer Sam", "Astromony Domine " and "Interstellar Overdrive " written by Syd Barrett...who could have learned those themes. This style became of interest in Japan when The Ventures toured there and that particular style of guitar playing was popular amongst the youth of the early 60s in the U.K. and the U.S. and if you were a kid learning guitar it was inevitable that you'd eventually learn a James Bond theme simply because of how relevant it was.

After Syd Barrett left Pink Floyd..several albums from Krautrock bands were released and I could hear that many of them pick up on the idea that Syd Barrett put to use. Not that they sounded completely like him...but just the essence of what he did with the Floyd turned up on Amon Duul Yeti, some sections of Can's music, early Guru Guru and obvious Electronic soundscapes on Tangerine Dream Atem that had similarities to Rick Wright on Ummagumma. Syd Barrett was influenced by the AMMM Music album and he seemed to use some of those ideas on Piper.. Since AMMM was experimental it interested musicians to try it on there own.. That particular idea is commonly found in Krautrock. I found Krautrock interesting and it took me on a journey.


The style of Electronic Music in Berlin was quite unique and differed from several of the pioneers of Electronic Music in America such as Ruth White, Mort Garson, Pauline Oliveros , Wendy Carlos Beaver & Krause etc...in some examples it didn't such as Paul Beaver's oscillating synthesizer on Ragnarock but yet musicians in the Krautrock movement composed differently. Even though a lot of it was improvised ...it was also planned out. Popol Vuh's music contained improvisation...but a lot of the music was composed and far from being a jam session.

Artists who are considered to be Electronic such as Klaus Schulze and Tangerine Dream are part of the Krautrock movement as such they are sometimes categorized as Krautrock and further described in the genre as a style of music which combines Electronic Music and Rock..or sometimes Progressive Rock like Eloy ..together to form "Space Rock"...

In 1969 Pink Floyd were sounding more experimental than Psychedelic. British Psychedelic seemed to venture into that a bit more . I remember reading something a long time ago about Roger Waters and Ron Geesin being friends and listening to American Avant-garde and Electronic. Some of the artists I mentioned earlier and let's not forget Terry Riley. A Rainbow In Curved Air was rhythmically pulsating and hypnotic. It was highly influential to the Electronic Music community during that movement. Roger Waters seemed to be influenced by the early American Electronic composers...the ones who consulted with Bob Moog forming workshops, demonstrations of the synthesizer at important events, and forming organizations like Paul Beaver and Ruth White. I noticed the familiarity of Mort Garson's "Leave The Driving To Us" in Pink Floyd's "On The Run". I noticed that "Several Small Species Of Furry Animals " is obviously something Ron Geesin would do. Perhaps they were all borrowing ideas from each other...who knows?

I believe that Paul Beaver was a very important person to music..( generally speaking) in the sense that he changed it for a whole lot of serious musicians after he released a recording of 4 somewhat improvised pieces performed in Grace Cathedral. The idea that the sound of the instruments would vibrate and flow differently based on the acoustics of the Cathedral and this was like an experiment that actually influenced many instrumentalists that became legendary in later years. So I believe that Paul Beaver was an innovator because he invented new ways to play music and expand its sounds..and by doing so..having new inventive , creative styles .

Wendy Carlos was another very important person ..not only to the Electronic Music world, but creating new ways to approach composition. All her inventive ideas and concept albums were highly influential to music and pushed its boundaries beyond what people could imagine during that time. Her persistence to record a concept album on the four seasons, recording the sounds outdoors that were identified/attached by nature to each season..with a tape recorder..then somehow mixing out any hiss..and blending it with the music. Beaver & Krause had already tried this on In A Wild Sanctuary..but specifically for a 7 or 8 minute piece and certainly not a entire album like Sonic Seasonings. Wendy Carlos and Paul Beaver were highly influential regarding ideas they both brought forth that inspired musicians to change the structure of music as time progressed.


Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - March 06 2022 at 20:10

David_D wrote: Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: Most of the albums I collected were import albums by Krautrock bands ....  Any particular reason for why you mostly were into Krautrock, Jacob?

Being in my 60s...hearing Progressive Rock in the early 70s..I often got the impression that the gymnastic side to Prog dominated the overall view of the music. Which was a drag at concerts because people in the audience were there for a contest. This got overblown. To each his own is the simple logic..however it became ignorance to stamp that image in a person's mind about Prog.


As Frank Zappa said..." Progressive Rock is different from regular Rock" and that's true ..but it's Progressive in several areas of music ...not just gymnastics... Many songs by Yes and Genesis are written from the heart. Many musicians are not thinking about what they are playing. Many are not thinking about what they're going to play before they play it. If you want to believe that playing an instrument is more spiritual than that..your not far from the truth...and that's if you want to use the word spiritual for it can also be attributed to how the brain and the emotions of a musician may draw them inward to their instrument and further away from the people they are performing in front of.

It's a piece of music inspired by nature or a personal experience...maybe a dream...If it's required to play fast in certain sections it's usually because a kind of passage played very fast and intricate leads the listener into a beautiful melodic chord progression and melody. This is very common practice because it's logical. It's possible you could have heard that in Mozart's music and its conditioning .


There are several examples of recorded improvisation in Progressive Rock where someone in the band overplays. One example would be a guitar player begins playing a beautiful melodic improvisation and suddenly the pianist is playing 12 notes behind it and wiping it out....and what the piano player should have done was stay out of the guitar player's way by backing their solo with a few chords and waiting until it's their turn to solo. Why ? Because you're ruining the music!!! 😃 It's ignorant to play over somebody's solo, but it's also ignorant to spoil the music and the overall outcome of its spirituality because of someone's ego.

If it's written to sound cluttered or awkward than we're talking about a whole different animal which fits like a glove in Progressive music..for example...Frank Zappa. When you study music theory for years and you become accomplished..the theory or science of music becomes secondary or less important to the outcome of your composition. Particularly during improvisation when a accomplished musician wants to let loose and the last thing they want in their mind is theory. So many fantastic pieces of music were written underneath a tree or by the ocean and there was no manuscript paper or constant focus on which chord should follow the next. It all developed naturally through a gifted ear. Something felt but cannot be explained not unlike Gnosis. When a person is born with natural talent they often expand music in that way. Laura Nyro and Miles Davis changed the course of music by doing so. Their improvisation and writing came natural to them and to degrees music theory was a reference or a tool to guide them..but the innovative part to both of them was a creative art form they felt in their hearts or unexplainable emotions which they pursued out of love for music and the sometimes overwhelming desire to express what they felt..

Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - March 08 2022 at 20:07

Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: It was next to impossible sharing that music experience with others and I think that can be attributed to the area I lived in.

Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: ... After Syd Barrett left Pink Floyd ... several albums from Krautrock bands were released and I could hear that many of them pick up on the idea that Syd Barrett put to use. Not that they sounded completely like him...but just the essence of what he did with the Floyd turned up on Amon Duul Yeti, some sections of Can's music, early Guru Guru and obvious Electronic soundscapes on Tangerine Dream Atem that had similarities to Rick Wright on Ummagumma.  ...

^Here here on Emile Jacotey!

Edited by Rednight - March 22 2022 at 13:45

Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: That's interesting Moshkito! Thank you for your insight! ...and yes!! Emile Jacotey is a beautiful album.

Edited by moshkito - April 06 2022 at 07:28

Jacob Schoolcraft wrote: Theory is important to the composer because it's a method of mapping everything out that's being stored up in their noodle which can result in madness if you don't write it down... ... The band leader would say..." Harry doesn't know how to read a note of music ... yet he is playing it exactly the way I want it to be played and you are not!! " "Why would that be?" ...

Music was escapism for me in my youth. I wanted to be diverse enough on guitar to be accepted by professional road bands by age 18. I wanted to leave Vineland N.J. because it was infested with cults and a high pressured drug culture along with authorities in a rage to bust every kid they possibly could for Marijuana beginning with the Nixon drug war campaign. That changed everything.


I remember being called into the office at school and being interrogated. Many kids who didn't take drugs were interrogated. It was ridiculous. In the office I was surrounded by a principal, a security guard, a counselor, and a clergyman. It was brought to my attention that I had dark circles under my eyes. Of course it couldn't have been because I had the worst sinus condition in the high school. No it couldn't have been that.


No...it had to be all about their drug war. I was 15 years old and really pissed off by these people. Especially because I had to suffer with this condition not them...and they're accusing me of taking illegal drugs.



Then they tried to steer me in the clergyman's direction and suggest that I substitute my drug habit with religion. I said: "You do teach Science here in the school so why are you telling me to believe in fables? The clergyman said: The direction you're going in is evil . Drugs and Rock Music are from Satan.

I said: So I should believe in a fable just because you say so? That's delusional. First you're trying to get me off drugs and now you're trying to convince me of something that has no scientific evidence? Why would it be dangerous not to believe? That's not dangerous...that's called reasoning.

They suspended me so on my way out I said.."Look..it's not my problem that your school is loaded with drug addicts and your town is infested with cults"

"Don't take it out on me because you can't control your town " So they suspended me for my disrespectful remarks. In the end...this was the reason why I hated the music business. Drugs and sex were tied into the business and were very controlling.
All for a cause to gain selfish power. That's why I turned away years ago and remain a recluse. ...