Progarchives and the world of boxes |
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Slartibartfast
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I am late to this thread and didn't digest the original post but I think Frank Zappa put it well - crush all boxes on Barking Pumpkin Records. I had a brief flirtation with prog snobbery but that faded. I am a big tenter and will be until I die.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Barbu
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 09 2005 Location: infinity Status: Offline Points: 30845 |
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Titties and beer, that's all that matters to me.
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HackettFan
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16310 |
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The only comment I can make here on this, and I love that album btw, but discussing it in PA is almost a dead end, and the "long this and that" folks immediately come out to show their displeasure at a lot of stuff that was one of the main stays of the "original" progressive music, that changed to much and so fast, that the only way to identify it, was to separate it into boxes ... heck, I remember Tower Records on the Strip putting things in "boxes" ... you did not find Peter Hammill and VdGG with rock music ... you found it at the end of the building next to left over old albums selling for a $1 before being thrown away ... in a small group (I mean small!!!!) that had CAN, and the rest next to it, were copies of the English Sgt Poopers and the Rolling Stones Their Majesty's clothes. I don't think that most folks that visited the store ever got to see those or even consider them ... except some folks like us, into imports, and this store, one in Westwood and the big one, Moby Disk ... but the only division that MD had was more interesting ... NEW, then Italian, French, German and so on ... and sections for TD and KS. And there was no way that you could not find something in there! It had more than you could imagine or consider and your wallet was always too small ... everyone of those imports, was about $12 to $15 dollars each ... and we're talking 1975! Well at least gas was cheap then, and 1 hour each way from Santa Barbara was not bad! There is no such thing as a "pointless jam", and folks need to wake up and stop using that pop music term, when discussing MUSIC ... instead of hit songs ... you don't sit here (or anywhere else) and discuss that Mozart violin that goes on too long ... you don't do that to the string sections in Tchaikovsky that help your child go to sleep while your mind trips along ... and you NEVER did that in those days SF or London ... until one magazine or two decided to stick to the 3 or 4 minute song, and decide that the rest of music was crap, and even called Tangerine Dream "washing machine music" ... and no one EVER said that the guy that spoke that needed to go back to work the streets and McDonald's until he/she knew the difference and appreciate the value of the work. Any poster here saying that, is only showing his/her lack of ability, or desire to actually listen to music in various different ways ... and appreciate the human spirit and its most important value of all ... CREATIVITY ... which is what those folks are trying hard to shut down! The "boxes" are not my favorite ideal, but they are the best alternative right now, until we redefine the music and get away from the "sounds like this" thing, which is what most of the designations are about ... they really have nothing to do with music at all ... well maybe that zeuhl thing but even then, the music, for the most part could be said to be a copy ... but I suppose that is fair when we see one original and all of a sudden it brings up 5 or 10 others, and some of them are actually different and take different paths, even if they "sound" the same.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16310 |
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Good gosh ... I have been listening to Sheila for so many years (The third Eye with Monsoon!!!!) ... and that ought to give you an idea of how much "foreign music" I was into when that album came out ... we got it immediately when we heard a couple of things in it. My collection, by then, already had at the very least about 30 or more nationalities for music (1982/1983) ... and some of it was amplified by ECM ... but there was a lot more out there, than we ever gave credit to ... and I never stopped finding things, and in the past 20 years, my tastes have become even more varied as I extended the Latin American listening to more bands from South America and such ... you know the one Rog ... the ones where some PA folks could never imagine or consider it isn't progressive ... because it ain't British! AND, for the record, I am a liberal, I guess one could say! I just don't do politics and thoughts over it, but I will fight for the freedom of the arts ... FOREVER! Edited by moshkito - February 06 2020 at 09:58 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16310 |
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The best answer was a psychic friend of mine doing a talk to some 100 folks ... and someone asked him about boxes ... and he said that there is an inherent problem with "boxes" ... in that you create all kinds of boxes for everything, and then you get to the end ... and you can't find the box that undoes all the boxes! And this is a problem with the "values" associated with a lot of music ... and simply putting it somewhere where it is not always correct and their next album is not even close to that box ... now you have a problem ... it's called "confusion" in the worst way possible ... and what do some folks do? ... still looking for another box instead of the box to end all boxes! I don't do "boxes" ... !!!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Tethro Juul
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I mostly agree with the original post. I think that music is not a subject to argue about and it to be enjoyed and discussed with civility because it is not a competition. However, to stop short of being a hypocrite I will say that when I see my peers listening to modern day hip hop I can't help but wince at the ignorance being spoken in the lyrics and the lack of musical sophistication. Although I get the urge to criticize their taste I never actually do it, but I do tend to be a bit judgmental when I see somebody listening to music I deem as "lowbrow". Probably something I should work on.
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dr wu23
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***Ok...been about 3 weeks now...I'm still waiting for the name of that lp that is 'Miamiscot's 'favorite and isn't even on the top 100.....I mean if it's that good please share it.***
miamiscot Edited by dr wu23 - February 26 2020 at 10:21 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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Mosh. I assure you that your "psychic" friend, is no more able to talk to dead people than I am...Boxes are used for convenience, in areas where arbitary rules are required. Examples are mostly time related...However, boxes to hold subjective qualities are notoriously overlapping...but are used for convenience of trying to herd the cats of prog...
Edited by M27Barney - February 26 2020 at 11:37 |
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The Dark Elf
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Let's here it for the only box I like presently....Mick Box!
Thank you, thank you. I'm here 'til Tuesday. Try the veal.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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cstack3
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Guldbamsen
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Hi there and welcome to the site Thanks for joining the discussion. I think we’re all ‘snobs’ in one way or another - be that through music, food, literature, films, clothing or merely how we talk. The tricky thing is to acknowledge this and try to move forward ie leave the nonsensical bits behind. It is however not an easy task. I am struggling myself |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26241 |
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So the top ten prog bands are Yes Genesis King Crimson Soft Machine ELP Rush Gong Moody Blues Hawkwind Magma Tull fans will not be happy
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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I am definately not a food snob. I will (and have) eaten everything ever given to me as food...snd yes I have eaten some very strange things...and avoided most of the associated parasites, tho I have had tape worms once...
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16310 |
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If you want to stop being an _____ and go argue with a psychologist and psychiatrist with 50 years experience and a PHD ... go ahead ... you would end up ... trashed ... seriously trashed, for what I would like to consider a very uneducated post and position!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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You said "psychic" not psychologist you fookwit!!! |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 32854 |
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l'm reminded of a story I heard on the radio relayed by an astronomer. This anecdote is to the best of my recollection with some embellishment, no doubt. He was at some sort of function and was approached by a seemingly wealthy Texan. The Texan asked, "What do you do, I'm in oil." The astronomer replied, "I'm the Astronomer Royal". The Texan replied, "Really, wow, so you tell the Queen her fortune? That's fascinating. Hey, got any predictions for me?" The astronomer replied, "Oil prices will continue to fluctuate over time". The Texan looked unimpressed. Feeling awkward, the astronomer said, "You might have misheard me, I'm the Astronomer Royal, not the Astrologer Royal, but we also make predictions using astronomical data". "Oh, "said the Texan, "All right then", and walked off. I wondered if the Texan was joking and the astronomer didn't get the joke, or, well, I could see that being an easy mistake to make, especially in a crowded room. Royal Astrologer does have a historical ring to it.
And some of the greatest psychologists may well be psychos, not sure how many might claim physic abilities (not the reputable ones, at least). The Psychic Psychologist could make for a fantastic TV series. Throw in a Hannibal Lecter-like psychologist and it could be gogglebox gold. Edited by Logan - February 27 2020 at 10:25 |
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Logan
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By the way, when it comes to boxes, I like the ones best that you can think outside of.
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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In my professional opinion (as a technical business analyst) the human mind is very much evolved to try and place as much as possible into comfortable sets/groups. Like I have opined before, a lot of laws that are based on arbitary ages, do so, because it is not practicable (in law) to have continuous parameters that would create far more grey areas than fixed statutory gauges...True genius IS thinking in a way that nobody has yet thought of...but still avoiding metaphysical nonsense to back up those ideas... |
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SteveG
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