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Progarchives and the world of boxes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:19
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How can music that's deemed progressive possibly fit into a box?....


It can fit some boxes better than others, such as hyperboxes.

Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 16:19
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

It's all subjective. My favorite album of all time isn't even in PA's Top 100 so what do I know?!

Would you be so kind as to name that album...I would like to listen to it..assuming I haven't already.
Thanks...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 18:50
I personally don't care much about boxes, stars or anything of the sort. Nowadays, you can easily listen to a band, album or song and decide if you like it or not, before you have to actually buy it. What other people say sometimes helps, others doesn't, but I always get my music based on how much I enjoy it, without thinking too much, if any at all, in the ratings othe people give them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 20:58
What's a box?
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progmatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 21:12
Usually 3 or 4 CDs with unreleased tracks, a book, and maybe a DVD or BluRay. LOL
PROGMATIC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 22:07
I guess this is already dying away, but something came into my mind about this. I think we all build less or more boxes around us, just for the reason there is just too much music to listen. And to me it has been totally ok, the new music I search these days have to be absolutely great music, good music I have round me more I have time to listen. I think David´s point has been, that although we already "know" what´s great and what´s not, maybe we should try at least some situations to see outside that "box" we have build and if nothing else, we might meet some interesting people.

I think it´s very common here people like to give recommendations, but there are less people who really listen those recommendations (at least to me it seems so). I have to say, I have listened most the albums (at least part of them) that have recommended to me, but the result has been I have found very little 2000 albums I have really liked (there are some) and much more 1950-99 albums I have liked. So I have become little pessimistic that new music will offer me anything great. Of course lots of old music that I have never listened before, is also just good music or bad. I don´t know but I have started to think maybe there is just certain number of great albums and they´re mostly made?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 00:18
Prog polls have been around since the 1970's. Sadly I can even remember Carl Palmer winning the top drummer award for 7 years in a row (1971-77) in the Melody Maker version. Handing out gongs for perceived achievement is not a new thing and wasn't invented by stupid people. Those who think that we don't understand that music is art are patronising to say the least ( no names no pack drill) but music can be what you want it to be. There is no need to 'Thought Police' how music is discussed. As a famous an influential band once said - Let It Be.

BTW have we got round to trying to define prog yet? Perhaps need to run a few more pages...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 00:20
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


BTW have we got round to trying to define prog yet? Perhaps need to run a few more pages...
No. Just nomore that "box".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 09:25
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

I guess this is already dying away, but something came into my mind about this. I think we all build less or more boxes around us, just for the reason there is just too much music to listen. And to me it has been totally ok, the new music I search these days have to be absolutely great music, good music I have round me more I have time to listen. I think David´s point has been, that although we already "know" what´s great and what´s not, maybe we should try at least some situations to see outside that "box" we have build and if nothing else, we might meet some interesting people.



While I agree with the sentiment, there are practical difficulties which have, in turn, led to the creation of these boxes in the first place.  

The difficulty being if you don't evaluate an artist in terms of the genre they fit into, you run the risk of dismissing them without understanding what they're trying to do.  There is a limit to pure instinctive open mindedness beyond which something that is unfamiliar will sound unpleasant to you and turn you off.  If you go to jazz as a person habituated to listening to very structured music, you may not enjoy it much unless somebody told you that that's exactly what jazz isn't about.  If you complain about one note harmony in Indian music, you miss the point of it and/or are holding it up to standards it doesn't even try to meet because it's on a different journey.  

Now once you learn what the genre is about and understand what different artists in the genre try to create, you will naturally have difficulties accepting artists that break the pattern within the genre in their urge to find creative avenues.  Yes, we should try to get past it but this isn't always achieved and it's easier said than done.  That's when you have to switch back to an instinctive way of approaching music, keeping an open mind and taking it in without trying to develop an intellectualized critique.  But again, it's hard to know when to do that.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 09:52
That was a great post Maban, thanks man
You also touch upon a very important subject that I neglected to mention in my OP: gurus.
Most of the stuff that I used to snark at but now have developed a serious taste for was not something that just happened magically. I had friends taking my hand and leading me down pathways they deemed to align the best with my peculiar tastebuds...and it worked wonders too.
Conversely I’ve gone the guru route myself. I’m not entirely sure anymore but we’re probably talking 100s of punks here in Denmark who are into King Crimson, because I used to play Red a lot...and those guys have told me how they got their friends into Crimson..and so it goes.
Many of those guys are friends I’ve known since school or similarly from Ungdomshuset (a sort of home for the underground peeps in Copenhagen) and they went from hating an entire genre to vehemently exploring it...or some of it. I got most of em into Can and Art Zoyd as well.

Most of the reasons why we tend to scoff at entire styles of music are wholly nonsensical barriers we’ve conjured up in our own brains. It happens over time out in the perimetre with family, friends and the big wide world. Influences are constant. Again a guru, preferably a cool one at that, will most likely better help you tear some of those barriers down....but yes, most of the work is on you.

Edited by Guldbamsen - February 05 2020 at 09:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 09:57
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

I guess this is already dying away, but something came into my mind about this. I think we all build less or more boxes around us, just for the reason there is just too much music to listen. And to me it has been totally ok, the new music I search these days have to be absolutely great music, good music I have round me more I have time to listen. I think David´s point has been, that although we already "know" what´s great and what´s not, maybe we should try at least some situations to see outside that "box" we have build and if nothing else, we might meet some interesting people.



While I agree with the sentiment, there are practical difficulties which have, in turn, led to the creation of these boxes in the first place.  

The difficulty being if you don't evaluate an artist in terms of the genre they fit into, you run the risk of dismissing them without understanding what they're trying to do.  There is a limit to pure instinctive open mindedness beyond which something that is unfamiliar will sound unpleasant to you and turn you off.  If you go to jazz as a person habituated to listening to very structured music, you may not enjoy it much unless somebody told you that that's exactly what jazz isn't about.  If you complain about one note harmony in Indian music, you miss the point of it and/or are holding it up to standards it doesn't even try to meet because it's on a different journey.  

Now once you learn what the genre is about and understand what different artists in the genre try to create, you will naturally have difficulties accepting artists that break the pattern within the genre in their urge to find creative avenues.  Yes, we should try to get past it but this isn't always achieved and it's easier said than done.  That's when you have to switch back to an instinctive way of approaching music, keeping an open mind and taking it in without trying to develop an intellectualized critique.  But again, it's hard to know when to do that.  
I think that there is a difference between "not understanding" a piece of music and not liking it. Unfortunately, I think that some people conflate the two and that's when intolerance sets in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 10:43
Not many threads on here go over my head but this is one of them. Confused

I understand about not putting something in a box but I think maybe this has gone way beyond that(to be fair I haven't read every single sentence in this thread but just based on the first page I knew this would lose me. Lol.).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 10:53
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Not many threads on here go over my head but this is one of them. Confused

I understand about not putting something in a box but I think maybe this has gone way beyond that(to be fair I haven't read every single sentence in this thread but just based on the first page I knew this would lose me. Lol.).
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's confused about "boxes". Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 11:17
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Not many threads on here go over my head but this is one of them. Confused

I understand about not putting something in a box but I think maybe this has gone way beyond that(to be fair I haven't read every single sentence in this thread but just based on the first page I knew this would lose me. Lol.).
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's confused about "boxes". Smile

Not only that but why mention something at the very beginning of a post and then not say what specifically you are talking about(in this case the actual review was not mentioned). A lot of people don't like those albums. Three stars is generous for some people. Aside from that "boxes" really have nothing to do with it imo. Not all prog appeals to everyone. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - February 05 2020 at 11:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 11:23
You guys are thick
TCat literally spelled it out right after the first time you guys mentioned you were lost.
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:


I just listened to a perfect example of getting out of your box to listen to something amazing.
 
Cary Grace - Lady of Turquoise  Released on Jan 31, 2020
 
As one who can sometimes get tired of the long and pointless jams of some of the many wannabe psychedelic/space rock bands, I never once got tired of listening to this double album.  Some may not agree, but I never would have heard this if I hadn't decided (over 2 years ago) to move past some of my prejudices about certain sub-genres (boxes). 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 13:11
I am happier listening to music than I am talking about it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 13:31
^ How dare you ~

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 16:05
is that so

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 18:40
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

I guess this is already dying away, but something came into my mind about this. I think we all build less or more boxes around us, just for the reason there is just too much music to listen. And to me it has been totally ok, the new music I search these days have to be absolutely great music, good music I have round me more I have time to listen. I think David´s point has been, that although we already "know" what´s great and what´s not, maybe we should try at least some situations to see outside that "box" we have build and if nothing else, we might meet some interesting people.




While I agree with the sentiment, there are practical difficulties which have, in turn, led to the creation of these boxes in the first place.  

The difficulty being if you don't evaluate an artist in terms of the genre they fit into, you run the risk of dismissing them without understanding what they're trying to do.  There is a limit to pure instinctive open mindedness beyond which something that is unfamiliar will sound unpleasant to you and turn you off.  If you go to jazz as a person habituated to listening to very structured music, you may not enjoy it much unless somebody told you that that's exactly what jazz isn't about.  If you complain about one note harmony in Indian music, you miss the point of it and/or are holding it up to standards it doesn't even try to meet because it's on a different journey.  

Now once you learn what the genre is about and understand what different artists in the genre try to create, you will naturally have difficulties accepting artists that break the pattern within the genre in their urge to find creative avenues.  Yes, we should try to get past it but this isn't always achieved and it's easier said than done.  That's when you have to switch back to an instinctive way of approaching music, keeping an open mind and taking it in without trying to develop an intellectualized critique.  But again, it's hard to know when to do that.  
I think that there is a difference between "not understanding" a piece of music and not liking it. Unfortunately, I think that some people conflate the two and that's when intolerance sets in.

unfortunately a lot of people do assume that music they don't understand is music they don't like. This is particularly common in music because its effect is so visceral. It will continue to provoke sharp and divergent reactions because people can't help reacting to the sounds they hear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2020 at 18:44
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

That was a great post Maban, thanks man
You also touch upon a very important subject that I neglected to mention in my OP: gurus.
Most of the stuff that I used to snark at but now have developed a serious taste for was not something that just happened magically. I had friends taking my hand and leading me down pathways they deemed to align the best with my peculiar tastebuds...and it worked wonders too.
Conversely I’ve gone the guru route myself. I’m not entirely sure anymore but we’re probably talking 100s of punks here in Denmark who are into King Crimson, because I used to play Red a lot...and those guys have told me how they got their friends into Crimson..and so it goes.
Many of those guys are friends I’ve known since school or similarly from Ungdomshuset (a sort of home for the underground peeps in Copenhagen) and they went from hating an entire genre to vehemently exploring it...or some of it. I got most of em into Can and Art Zoyd as well.

Most of the reasons why we tend to scoff at entire styles of music are wholly nonsensical barriers we’ve conjured up in our own brains. It happens over time out in the perimetre with family, friends and the big wide world. Influences are constant. Again a guru, preferably a cool one at that, will most likely better help you tear some of those barriers down....but yes, most of the work is on you.


Yes, absolutely and it was a similar experience albeit via a different route for me. Around the time I got into rock music was when orkut came about and I found music communities there, discussing music from all sorts of genres. Being that most of us were hot headed twenty somethings, we squabbled a lot but many recommendations I received from these friends opened up my horizons in a big way. And given the current political situation in India, we are all on better terms with each other than ever before because one usually has to be a liberal of some sort to be a rock fan in India.

Edited by rogerthat - February 05 2020 at 18:45
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