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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Miles Davis? Tool? Pain of Salvation? Queensryche?


I understand why some are upset with that Miles Davis album from 1959 in the top 100.

Sad to see progressive metal usually bashed these days, there's hardly anyone to talk about it on the forum.

Tool and Pain of Salvation are two bands that blew my mind when i first listened to a full lenth album from them. Tool with Aenema and PoS with their debut album, late 90s, I found both to be unique, interesting and very enjoyable.

As for Queensryche, O:M is one of those albums that were groundbreaking when released, and it's albumthat has aged well.

I got no gripes with these bands.

I also find it both funny and lame seeing some people always annoyed by the top 100. ConfusedBig smile


Edited by Cristi - February 18 2020 at 02:54
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Kind Of Blue... It's a landmark jazz album for sure, perhaps progressive in its own ways, but it sure as hell ain't progressive rock in any way. Worst thing is that it's ahead of some of the Miles Davis albums that are the reason he's on PA in the first place. While I'm not going to say we should award stars based solely on how "prog" or "progressive" an album is, the definition of a 5-star rating here is "Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music" - so I think its status here is unwarranted.

Other then that, I don't care. People have different opinions than me, whoop de doo.

I definitely agree with this. The fact that Bitches Brew is so low is also a travesty. That should be his highest rated album on this website.

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my favourite album (Brain Salad Surgery) doesn't make the top 100 but the rating itself is fine. There is an awful lot of stuff that is too highly rated. I wouldn't count Fragile as that is probably the best 'starter prog' album there is. Dark Side Of The Moon and In The Court Of The Crimson King are the 2 albums I would jettison from the top ten ( but fine for the top 100) . Also Rick Wakeman should have at least one album in the top 100. I would like a lot less Camel and Tull and a lot more ELP in the top 100. Don't mind Opeth appearing a lot as they are one of the post 70's BIG SIX as far as I'm concerned.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

This...

Average rating: The classic calculation of the average but more weight is affected to the rating of progarchives.com collaborators and to rating with reviews.

- Rating only: Weight = 1 
- Review by members : Weight = 10 
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20 

20 to 1? Not fair in my opinion. And Miles and all jazz-rock/fusion will never be prog for me.
 

1 - 10 - 20 is fine. 0 - 10 - 20 would be even finer.

If my ageing memory still serves me, long ago the ratio has been 1 - 3 - 10, so it has improved.


Edited by someone_else - February 18 2020 at 00:01
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Kind Of Blue... It's a landmark jazz album for sure, perhaps progressive in its own ways, but it sure as hell ain't progressive rock in any way. Worst thing is that it's ahead of some of the Miles Davis albums that are the reason he's on PA in the first place. While I'm not going to say we should award stars based solely on how "prog" or "progressive" an album is, the definition of a 5-star rating here is "Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music" - so I think its status here is unwarranted.

Other then that, I don't care. People have different opinions than me, whoop de doo.

I have no gripes with Kind Of Blue. It's a brilliant jazz album, but if it qualifies for the top 100 list why doesn't the equally brilliant folk album, Lindisfarne's Dingly Dell qualify for even a mention anywhere on the Prog Archives? 


Edited by iluvmarillion - February 17 2020 at 23:10
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

This...

Average rating: The classic calculation of the average but more weight is affected to the rating of progarchives.com collaborators and to rating with reviews.

- Rating only: Weight = 1 
- Review by members : Weight = 10 
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20 

20 to 1? Not fair in my opinion. And Miles and all jazz-rock/fusion will never be prog for me.


Albums like Kind Of Blue in the top 100 are due to the all albums policy of adding artists. If we could tag albums individually it would labeled as non-prog and wouldn't be able to show up. That's definitely something i would love to see changed.

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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

This...

Average rating: The classic calculation of the average but more weight is affected to the rating of progarchives.com collaborators and to rating with reviews.

- Rating only: Weight = 1 
- Review by members : Weight = 10 
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20 

20 to 1? Not fair in my opinion. And Miles and all jazz-rock/fusion will never be prog for me.


Interesting point, would you change 1 to 5 or lower collaborator influence? Or both?
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Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

 
Sooooo...#1 doesn't count as part of the Top 50?

My mistake. Didn't scroll enough.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Personally I think that all traps on earth album 100% deserves it’s place and more^

Incredible production and musicianship and I have no problem ranking it higher than all those, I’d argue for top 10 for it honestly.


Then you might like to listen to any number of jazz fusion albums from the 1970s. The album is derivative. Fine as a debut, but derivative of great fusion albums produced 40 years ago. Evidently, you've never heard of Return to Forever, Billy Cobham or Mahavishnu Orchestra. Been there, done that.


I do love fusion and have a pretty good collection. In ATOE i hear symphonic, eclectic, zeuhl and RIO/advent. Very little fusion. I’m not going to argue though, it’s an opinion you are allowed to have.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Even funnier "All Traps On Earth" was not even voted as one of the TOP 50 in the 2018 Prog Archives Collaborators Album of the Year. Again, WTF? There's a bad QWR quotient in the voting tabulation somewhere.

Sooooo...#1 doesn't count as part of the Top 50?

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This...

Average rating: The classic calculation of the average but more weight is affected to the rating of progarchives.com collaborators and to rating with reviews.

- Rating only: Weight = 1 
- Review by members : Weight = 10 
- Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 20 

20 to 1? Not fair in my opinion. And Miles and all jazz-rock/fusion will never be prog for me.
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Points: 14757 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2020 at 18:54
What's to complain about? It's a reflection of the preferences of many. Do i have the same list? Of course not but to actually consider it anything other than what it is, namely an indicator for how many proggers vote from total newbie to hardened master is trying to place more emphasis on it than it needs.

I do wish the top 250 was expanded to a top 1000 or something. I do like to understand where the majority stands even if i don't personally favor every choice.

It's also interesting how different the prog choices are on RYM than PA or any other site. It shows that different sites attract different crowds. If someone averaged the ratings of all the sites on the net then that would probably be a better indicator of what's really going on in the world. Just sayin'

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Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I'm personally happy with my top 100. Any other list reflects other peoples tastes/preferences, which is ok, and if it doesn't match my list, is not something I'm going to loose any sleep over. 

With the one situation that DE noted above ... which shows that it is not an album that has been heard and appreciated by the folks at PA, in general, when some of the others have way more votes ... and this was one of the issues with the open voting ... how many bots can someone setup to help "their" band look better ... and in essence, it hurts the poll, and I'm not putting down the band, but in 40 years, with so many folks voting here for at least what ... 10 to 20 years? ... 

Again, the setting up of the top of the pops, needs to STOP being the way it is, and these situations addressed. 
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The best fusion albums have a keyboardist who plays a Minimoog and/or ARP Odyssey and/or Fender Rhodes electric piano and/or Hohner Clavinet, so you can't go wrong with the '70s!

Jan, George, Joe, Herbie, Chick, Al...them's cats where it's at!
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Personally I think that all traps on earth album 100% deserves it’s place and more^

Incredible production and musicianship and I have no problem ranking it higher than all those, I’d argue for top 10 for it honestly.

Then you might like to listen to any number of jazz fusion albums from the 1970s. The album is derivative. Fine as a debut, but derivative of great fusion albums produced 40 years ago. Evidently, you've never heard of Return to Forever, Billy Cobham or Mahavishnu Orchestra. Been there, done that.
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Personally I think that all traps on earth album 100% deserves it’s place and more^

Incredible production and musicianship and I have no problem ranking it higher than all those, I’d argue for top 10 for it honestly.

Edited by dougmcauliffe - February 17 2020 at 17:37
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I'm personally happy with my top 100. Any other list reflects other peoples tastes/preferences, which is ok, andif it doesn't match my list, is not something I'm going to loose any sleep over. 
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Every jazz album that the artists themselves would not have considered "progressive rock" (I am looking at you, Miles Davis, Billy Cobham, Nucleus, etc.).

Also, I find it a joke that 

A Drop Of Light
All Traps On Earth

is rated 28th with only 433 ratings. WTF? Look at the masterpieces that are following it, and ones that aren't even on the 100 list. Any sentient member would not consider this some kind of masterpiece better than Hot Rats, The Yes Album, Meddle, Crime of the Century, ELP debut, Lateralus, Voyage of the Acolyte, A Trick of the Tail, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, A Farewell to Kings, Rock Bottom, Aqualung (which isn't even on the list), etc. 

Even funnier "All Traps On Earth" was not even voted as one of the TOP 50 in the 2018 Prog Archives Collaborators Album of the Year. Again, WTF? There's a bad QWR quotient in the voting tabulation somewhere.


Edited by The Dark Elf - February 17 2020 at 17:10
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Miles Davis? Tool? Pain of Salvation? Queensryche?
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Also I’m not asking wether or not you care about the list or wether or not I should care about the list. I’m asking those who pay attention to it what their biggest annoyance is with it.
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I answered before seeing this. Ignore my previous post.
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