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SteveG 
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 Posted: May 22 2020 at 09:37 |
 lazland wrote:
Cristi wrote:
DarksideofCollages wrote:
[QUOTE=Cinema]For many many years Waters tried to destroy Pink Floyd through various legal actions and other means. If I were Gilmour, I'd tell him to pound salt too. Waters has more than earned it.[/QUOTE How can you say that? when the man is Pink Floyd even though legally he can't tour as pink Floyd without Mason as Gilmour can as he tours with Mason, but for God's sake that is mostly his music and lyrics. If He wants to destroy the band that he gave his soul and mind, then why he keeps visiting those songs he wrote during the Floyd' years? Because that's what the fans wants to hear? and where the money is? Well it is his music and words. He is entitled. I think Guilmour is been such an ass to Waters.  |
Waters turned from a driving force to dictator really quickly, marginalizing first Wright, and then the other two by the time The Final Cut came out. I have never understood how Wright did not have writing credits on WYWH (well except Shine On, what about the rest of the songs, plenty of keys, don't tell me Waters played those, I don't believe you) and Animals (on Dogs and Sheep, no Wright?).
Also if you listen to The Wall demos and what eneded up on the album, Waters was very lucky with Gilmour, Ezrin and Kamen arranging a lot of songs.
And if you look on his solo work, again, Waters had to surround himself with competent musicians, ffs he invited Clapton to play with him.
As much as I like Floyd and Waters' solo albums, he's often been a bit dooshy, sorry... |
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters. |
Yes, Rick said his was busy "flying without wings." 
Or too busy with his sailboat. Take your pick.
Edited by SteveG - May 22 2020 at 09:49
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MortSahlFan
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Joined: March 01 2018
Location: US
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 09:56 |
someone_else wrote:
ssmarcus wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic. |
For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.
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Rather than follow you into the black hole that it is a discussion about Arab aggression towards Jews exercising their right to self determination and settling in their historic homeland, I will simply point out that Roger Waters has been called out by reputable antisemitism watch dog organizations for using antisemitic imagery in his performances and espousing conspiritorial views in relation to Jewish influence in business in politics. Rather than clarify and apologize for these things, Waters doubles down.
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He has been ranked #4 in a top 10 of antisemitism, released by the Simon Wiesenthal Center some 6 or 7 years ago. But his alleged antisemitic imagery does not bug me too much - it just fits in the story. It's just the fact that the Protocols of the Sages of Zion still seem to resonate with some people and the whole BDS thing for which he pushed himself as the main spokesman that I find annoying. |
Is there no Ignore button to avoid this soulless (and historically ignorant) sh*t?
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https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition
https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:01 |
Catcher10 wrote:
Well Roger left Pink Floyd, due to creative differences in 1985. Then the legal fight started which was really about money and Roger claiming Pink Floyd was broke and was creatively spent, so it needed to be broken up. After the settlement Pink Floyd continued and Roger went on his way......Roger has nothing to do with Pink Floyd after 1987, he retained rights to The Wall hence we will have Reissue Wall Tours till the end of time, he is not Pink Floyd so he has no right to be on the Pink Floyd website....He just thinks that David and Mason are fine with it now since it has been 33yrs.
His website should be called "Roger Waters-I'm The Wall" |
Amen, thank you. Waters really seems to think Gilmour and Wright ought to have forgotten Waters' own unseemly behaviour in the 80s. He sued them - unsuccessfully, thank God - to stop them from using the Pink Floyd, for crying out loud. And now he is upset they won't let him post his material on the Floyd website, but why should they?
Yes, it's true he said many, many years later that he was wrong to have sued them but that can hardly have made his company a bearable prospect again for Gilmour and Mason. I actually do think AMLOR and DB are weak albums but I do not blame Gilmour, Mason and the late Wright for not wishing to have anything to do with Waters again. He was asking for it.
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SteveG
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:05 |
rogerthat wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Well Roger left Pink Floyd, due to creative differences in 1985. Then the legal fight started which was really about money and Roger claiming Pink Floyd was broke and was creatively spent, so it needed to be broken up. After the settlement Pink Floyd continued and Roger went on his way......Roger has nothing to do with Pink Floyd after 1987, he retained rights to The Wall hence we will have Reissue Wall Tours till the end of time, he is not Pink Floyd so he has no right to be on the Pink Floyd website....He just thinks that David and Mason are fine with it now since it has been 33yrs.
His website should be called "Roger Waters-I'm The Wall" |
Amen, thank you. Waters really seems to think Gilmour and Wright ought to have forgotten Waters' own unseemly behaviour in the 80s. He sued them - unsuccessfully, thank God - to stop them from using the Pink Floyd, for crying out loud. And now he is upset they won't let him post his material on the Floyd website, but why should they?
Yes, it's true he said many, many years later that he was wrong to have sued them but that can hardly have made his company a bearable prospect again for Gilmour and Mason. I actually do think AMLOR and DB are weak albums but I do not blame Gilmour, Mason and the late Wright for not wishing to have anything to do with Waters again. He was asking for it. |
Absolutely. Waters is one of the most unsavory characters in rock music and I've met quite a few of them. Their rock god status gives them a wide berth and that's always the problem. I'm not criticizing his political views, only his egotism.
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rogerthat
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:11 |
SteveG wrote:
Absolutely. Waters is one of the most unsavory characters in rock music and I've met quite a few of them. Their rock god status gives them a wide berth and that's always the problem. I'm not criticizing his political views, only his egotism. |
Ever met AXL?
Edited by rogerthat - May 22 2020 at 10:12
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SteveG
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:13 |
rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
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Absolutely. Waters is one of the most unsavory characters in rock music and I've met quite a few of them. Their rock god status gives them a wide berth and that's always the problem. I'm not criticizing his political views, only his egotism.
Ever met AXL? |
ha ha no. But at least Axl never spit on anyone. 
Edited by SteveG - May 22 2020 at 10:13
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:17 |
no, he jumped off stage and punched one in the face. It's on video.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:18 |
Cristi wrote:
no, he jumped off stage and punched one in the face. It's on video. |
Was it Montreal or St Louis? Forget which, because both shows were ahem eventful.
Edited by rogerthat - May 22 2020 at 10:18
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Catcher10
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:36 |
Cristi wrote:
no, he jumped off stage and punched one in the face. It's on video. |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 19626
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 11:16 |
lazland wrote:
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters. |
Yup, he used all of his musical ideas on Wet Dreams as Gilmour did also on his first solo, bar the future Comfortably Numb. Not only did that leave the path wide open to Waters. But while these two were busy recording on the side, Roger was busy trying to save the band from bankrupcy. If there was a Floyd by The Wall recording time (and still today), it's all thanks to Roger.
Wright was also in depression (marital problems, I think) by 79 and sabotaged The Wall (minimal participation in the creative process) and also by taking holidays once everybody had returned from theirs and the paid studio couldn't be cancelled. Bonkers went Waters and wanted him fired, and the other two couldn't really object.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 11:44 |
Sean Trane wrote:
lazland wrote:
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters. |
Yup, he used all of his musical ideas on Wet Dreams as Gilmour did also on his first solo, bar the future Comfortably Numb. Not only did that leave the path wide open to Waters. But while these two were busy recording on the side, Roger was busy trying to save the band from bankrupcy. If there was a Floyd by The Wall recording time (and still today), it's all thanks to Roger.
Wright was also in depression (marital problems, I think) by 79 and sabotaged The Wall (minimal participation in the creative process) and also by taking holidays once everybody had returned from theirs and the paid studio couldn't be cancelled. Bonkers went Waters and wanted him fired, and the other two couldn't really object.
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Yep, a pretty fair summary. People also forget that Gilmour was keen on sacking Mason at the same time Wright was kicked out.
Waters was, and is, a creative genius. He is also, by his own admission, an egotistical monster, and The Wall contains a huge amount of his personality.
Gilmour is a fantastic musician, and has a lovely voice, and contributed a huge amount to Floyd music.
Wright was, before his issues, a creative keyboardist who was driving much of Floyd’s creative juices.
Mason was a pretty raucous drummer in his day.
Together, they made some great music. Unforgettable.
They fell apart, mainly owing to nice middle class English boys making huge amounts of bunce, and developing staggering egos and personalities to match.
IMO, it might have been better to have called it a day when Waters left. The ego of Gilmour, and to a lesser extent the other two (even though Wright was on a wage), meant they carried on. I remember a very tetchy interview Waters had with Karl Dallas before the court case. He said..”It’s only a f**king rock and roll band. So f**king what? Just leave it as it was”.
Waters is not the sole protagonist. It takes four to fall apart, and Wright was rightly castigated for his attitude, as Gilmour himself said on many occasions.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 12:02 |
lazland wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
lazland wrote:
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters. |
Yup, he used all of his musical ideas on Wet Dreams as Gilmour did also on his first solo, bar the future Comfortably Numb. Not only did that leave the path wide open to Waters. But while these two were busy recording on the side, Roger was busy trying to save the band from bankrupcy. If there was a Floyd by The Wall recording time (and still today), it's all thanks to Roger.
Wright was also in depression (marital problems, I think) by 79 and sabotaged The Wall (minimal participation in the creative process) and also by taking holidays once everybody had returned from theirs and the paid studio couldn't be cancelled. Bonkers went Waters and wanted him fired, and the other two couldn't really object.
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Yep, a pretty fair summary. People also forget that Gilmour was keen on sacking Mason at the same time Wright was kicked out.
Waters was, and is, a creative genius. He is also, by his own admission, an egotistical monster, and The Wall contains a huge amount of his personality.
Gilmour is a fantastic musician, and has a lovely voice, and contributed a huge amount to Floyd music.
Wright was, before his issues, a creative keyboardist who was driving much of Floyd’s creative juices.
Mason was a pretty raucous drummer in his day.
Together, they made some great music. Unforgettable.
They fell apart, mainly owing to nice middle class English boys making huge amounts of bunce, and developing staggering egos and personalities to match.
IMO, it might have been better to have called it a day when Waters left. The ego of Gilmour, and to a lesser extent the other two (even though Wright was on a wage), meant they carried on. I remember a very tetchy interview Waters had with Karl Dallas before the court case. He said..”It’s only a f**king rock and roll band. So f**king what? Just leave it as it was”.
Waters is not the sole protagonist. It takes four to fall apart, and Wright was rightly castigated for his attitude, as Gilmour himself said on many occasions. |
Thanks Steve, for putting it all in the proper light. I certainly agree that there was ego mania all around and if anyone thinks that Mason is excluded, just take a look at all of his vintage Ferraris!
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M27Barney
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 12:19 |
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Mason can,t have that much ego...he is the owner of Bolton Wanderers....
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SteveG
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 12:48 |
M27Barney wrote:
Mason can,t have that much ego...he is the owner of Bolton Wanderers.... |
I said that he was an egotist. I never said that he was a genius.
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 15:38 |
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
lazland wrote:
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters. |
Yup, he used all of his musical ideas on Wet Dreams as Gilmour did also on his first solo, bar the future Comfortably Numb. Not only did that leave the path wide open to Waters. But while these two were busy recording on the side, Roger was busy trying to save the band from bankrupcy. If there was a Floyd by The Wall recording time (and still today), it's all thanks to Roger.
Wright was also in depression (marital problems, I think) by 79 and sabotaged The Wall (minimal participation in the creative process) and also by taking holidays once everybody had returned from theirs and the paid studio couldn't be cancelled. Bonkers went Waters and wanted him fired, and the other two couldn't really object. |
Yep, a pretty fair summary. People also forget that Gilmour was keen on sacking Mason at the same time Wright was kicked out. Waters was, and is, a creative genius. He is also, by his own admission, an egotistical monster, and The Wall contains a huge amount of his personality. Gilmour is a fantastic musician, and has a lovely voice, and contributed a huge amount to Floyd music. Wright was, before his issues, a creative keyboardist who was driving much of Floyd’s creative juices. Mason was a pretty raucous drummer in his day.
Together, they made some great music. Unforgettable. They fell apart, mainly owing to nice middle class English boys making huge amounts of bunce, and developing staggering egos and personalities to match.
IMO, it might have been better to have called it a day when Waters left. The ego of Gilmour, and to a lesser extent the other two (even though Wright was on a wage), meant they carried on. I remember a very tetchy interview Waters had with Karl Dallas before the court case. He said..”It’s only a f**king rock and roll band. So f**king what? Just leave it as it was”.
Waters is not the sole protagonist. It takes four to fall apart, and Wright was rightly castigated for his attitude, as Gilmour himself said on many occasions. |
Thanks Steve, for putting it all in the proper light. I certainly agree that there was ego mania all around and if anyone thinks that Mason is excluded, just take a look at all of his vintage Ferraris! |
Actually, I think the better human in Floyd is/was Mason. Read the book he wrote to understand that he's less of an ego the other three were. I'd also say Wright could never develop his ego fully because he had his nervous breakdown before he could grow it.
From what I see in post AMLOR years, even when Gilmour reinstated him as a full member (to have more legitimacy), Wright appeared to be a broken man. Wright always retained his subordinate-attitude , forever indebted to his Davidness.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 16:42 |
Sean Trane wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
lazland wrote:
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters. |
Yup, he used all of his musical ideas on Wet Dreams as Gilmour did also on his first solo, bar the future Comfortably Numb. Not only did that leave the path wide open to Waters. But while these two were busy recording on the side, Roger was busy trying to save the band from bankrupcy. If there was a Floyd by The Wall recording time (and still today), it's all thanks to Roger.
Wright was also in depression (marital problems, I think) by 79 and sabotaged The Wall (minimal participation in the creative process) and also by taking holidays once everybody had returned from theirs and the paid studio couldn't be cancelled. Bonkers went Waters and wanted him fired, and the other two couldn't really object. |
Yep, a pretty fair summary. People also forget that Gilmour was keen on sacking Mason at the same time Wright was kicked out. Waters was, and is, a creative genius. He is also, by his own admission, an egotistical monster, and The Wall contains a huge amount of his personality. Gilmour is a fantastic musician, and has a lovely voice, and contributed a huge amount to Floyd music. Wright was, before his issues, a creative keyboardist who was driving much of Floyd’s creative juices. Mason was a pretty raucous drummer in his day.
Together, they made some great music. Unforgettable. They fell apart, mainly owing to nice middle class English boys making huge amounts of bunce, and developing staggering egos and personalities to match.
IMO, it might have been better to have called it a day when Waters left. The ego of Gilmour, and to a lesser extent the other two (even though Wright was on a wage), meant they carried on. I remember a very tetchy interview Waters had with Karl Dallas before the court case. He said..”It’s only a f**king rock and roll band. So f**king what? Just leave it as it was”.
Waters is not the sole protagonist. It takes four to fall apart, and Wright was rightly castigated for his attitude, as Gilmour himself said on many occasions. |
Thanks Steve, for putting it all in the proper light. I certainly agree that there was ego mania all around and if anyone thinks that Mason is excluded, just take a look at all of his vintage Ferraris! |
Actually, I think the better human in Floyd is/was Mason. Read the book he wrote to understand that he's less of an ego the other three were. I'd also say Wright could never develop his ego fully because he had his nervous breakdown before he could grow it.
From what I see in post AMLOR years, even when Gilmour reinstated him as a full member (to have more legitimacy), Wright appeared to be a broken man. Wright always retained his subordinate-attitude , forever indebted to his Davidness.
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.....and I’m forever indebted to his Wrightness for Floyd being the way they were / are. I hate to think what they would be without him.
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Manuel
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 16:54 |
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Just one more thing between Roger and David. What can be said or done?
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judahbenkenobi
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Location: Guatemala
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 21:53 |
I'm glad that somewhere near the middle of this thread, people stopped posting political and religious opinions in a site especifically dedicated to progressive rock music!
Regarding these two amazing musicians and performers, all I can say is what we say in my country: "Puras viejas parecen"
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: May 22 2020 at 23:01 |
^ That's fair comment albeit tenuously ironic from someone with Judah in their forum name
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: May 23 2020 at 00:41 |
iluvmarillion wrote:
Really don't like this revisionism going on with Roger Waters regarding who wrote what on Comfortably Numb. It's entirely between Roger Waters and Dave Gilmour and has nothing to do with Pink Floyd fans like myself who don't want to know. His feud has nothing to do with us. |
I'm with you 100%.
However...
Expecting PF fans to be rational, when they can circle jerk over drama instead, is a recipe for disaster.
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Roger Waters Wacked
