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Last great albums before the great simplification
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Poll Question: Last gasps only - the last great album?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [3.33%]
6 [10.00%]
5 [8.33%]
16 [26.67%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [3.33%]
17 [28.33%]
0 [0.00%]
12 [20.00%]
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a concensus that Henry Cow - Western Culture is the last great first wave prog album. Wink


Consensus? I dunno

1979 included

Henry Cow - Western Culture

Univers Zero - Heresie

Pekka Pohjola - Visitation

Arachnoid - Arachnoid

Laurent Thibault  - Mais on ne peut pas rêver tout le temps

Embryo - Embryo's Reise

Art Zoyd - Musique pour l'Odyssee

Art Bears - Winter Songs

Ma Banlieue Flasque - Ma Banlieue Flasque

there are many MANY more highly complex prog albums from that year and all throughout the 80s


I understand what  you're going for with this thread but prog never really simplified, it just went underground while the more popular acts went more commercial but you need to be more specific about what you mean here.

Last great albums before the great simplification for me would imply the albums around 1975 or 76 before punk and disco really took control. There have always been outliers of prog even in the so-called desert 80s.

Not really sure how to answer this one. There are examples of prog albums that were BOTH simple and complex like Kansas - Overture

In reality there is a huge overlap and any popular prog album from 1975 to 1980 could qualify.

Polls are conversation starters - and I am discussing the more popular prog acts.  That UZ album, for instance, is fantastic, but on release it's impact was limited.  In the UK for instance, I don't think I ever saw any UZ or Art Zoyd albums on the shelves.  I also agree that many of these acts you mention remained 'underground' and remained genuine innovators.


I was always under the impression that Henry Cow was quite unpopular during the day and only in the following decades became the classic prog champions of avant-prog.

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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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As far as popular acts go that symbolize the end of the prog scene, i'd agree with ANIMALS.

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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

The last great album before the great simplification would be UK's Danger Money, which is not on this list.
 

agreed
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Animals as it's the only album on the list that is anywhere near great, and everything Floyd did after it was either awful (The Wall, The Final Cut) to OK (The Division Bell, AMLOR).
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a concensus that Henry Cow - Western Culture is the last great first wave prog album. Wink


Consensus? I dunno

1979 included

Henry Cow - Western Culture

Univers Zero - Heresie

Pekka Pohjola - Visitation

Arachnoid - Arachnoid

Laurent Thibault  - Mais on ne peut pas rêver tout le temps

Embryo - Embryo's Reise

Art Zoyd - Musique pour l'Odyssee

Art Bears - Winter Songs

Ma Banlieue Flasque - Ma Banlieue Flasque

there are many MANY more highly complex prog albums from that year and all throughout the 80s


I understand what  you're going for with this thread but prog never really simplified, it just went underground while the more popular acts went more commercial but you need to be more specific about what you mean here.

Last great albums before the great simplification for me would imply the albums around 1975 or 76 before punk and disco really took control. There have always been outliers of prog even in the so-called desert 80s.

Not really sure how to answer this one. There are examples of prog albums that were BOTH simple and complex like Kansas - Overture

In reality there is a huge overlap and any popular prog album from 1975 to 1980 could qualify.

Polls are conversation starters - and I am discussing the more popular prog acts.  That UZ album, for instance, is fantastic, but on release it's impact was limited.  In the UK for instance, I don't think I ever saw any UZ or Art Zoyd albums on the shelves.  I also agree that many of these acts you mention remained 'underground' and remained genuine innovators.


I was always under the impression that Henry Cow was quite unpopular during the day and only in the following decades became the classic prog champions of avant-prog.

They were. I remember someone bringing Western Culture into my room shortly after its release when I had some friends round and we stuck it on. The general opinion was "what the hell is this sh*te?".
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Songs from the Wood was released a month after Animals. So no vote here, as the choices are fewer than should be.
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

The last great album before the great simplification would be UK's Danger Money, which is not on this list.

YEAH!! Clap

Jethro Tull's Stormwatch isn't on the list, either...
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Animals as it's the only album on the list that is anywhere near great, and everything Floyd did after it was either awful (The Wall, The Final Cut) to OK (The Division Bell, AMLOR).
 

That's a hardline stance if I've ever seen one. Not a fan of Red, I take it?
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Of the albums in this list, Duke was the last to be released, in 1980. Ergo the answer must be Duke.
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

As far as popular acts go that symbolize the end of the prog scene, i'd agree with ANIMALS.

No, there were some after that imo such as:

Camel -nude (81)
Yes - Drama (80)
Happy the Man- Crafty Hands (78)(their first proper album was in 77)
Rush-Permanent Waves(80), Moving Pictures(81)
UK- same (78), Danger Money(79)
Genesis- Duke(80)(well, it's about half prog anyway)
Kansas - Monolith(79) (about the same as above)

Those are just some of the more well known ones. 



Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - May 22 2020 at 11:57
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

As far as popular acts go that symbolize the end of the prog scene, i'd agree with ANIMALS.

No, there were some after that imo such as:

Camel -nude (81)
Yes - Drama (80)
Happy the Man- Crafty Hands (78)(their first proper album was in 77)
Rush-Permanent Waves(80), Moving Pictures(81)
UK- same (78), Danger Money(79)
Genesis- Duke(80)(well, it's about half prog anyway)
Kansas - Monolith(79) (about the same as above)

Those are just some of the more well known ones.
 

Camel was past their prime at that point (and I like Stationary Traveler better).

Monolith was the first Kansas album to disappoint. It's definitely a step down when you compare it to what came before.

If we can't include Tull's A (which I wouldn't, and it was meant to be Ian solo), I wouldn't include Duke.
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Close between Red and Animals but gotta go with Floyd this time. If only my copy of Red on vinyl wasn't a misprint with the A side printed on both sides! Angry
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Scorpius Scorpius wrote:

If only my copy of Red on vinyl wasn't a misprint with the A side printed on both sides! Angry

You can replace that. Wink
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

As far as popular acts go that symbolize the end of the prog scene, i'd agree with ANIMALS.

No, there were some after that imo such as:

Camel -nude (81)
Yes - Drama (80)
Happy the Man- Crafty Hands (78)(their first proper album was in 77)
Rush-Permanent Waves(80), Moving Pictures(81)
UK- same (78), Danger Money(79)
Genesis- Duke(80)(well, it's about half prog anyway)
Kansas - Monolith(79) (about the same as above)

Those are just some of the more well known ones.
 

Camel was past their prime at that point (and I like Stationary Traveler better).

Monolith was the first Kansas album to disappoint. It's definitely a step down when you compare it to what came before.

If we can't include Tull's A (which I wouldn't, and it was meant to be Ian solo), I wouldn't include Duke.

Well, you could say anything after Moonmadness was past Camel's prime just like you can say anything after CTTE was past Yes's prime. For Genesis it's a bit more hazy but maybe anything after PG left.
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Originally posted by Scorpius Scorpius wrote:

Close between Red and Animals but gotta go with Floyd this time. If only my copy of Red on vinyl wasn't a misprint with the A side printed on both sides! Angry

Sounds like the kind of thing that could bring a pretty penny from a collector. Like vintage baseball card misprints. 

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Interesting to see your contributions and I thank you.  I have documented my non-inclusion of both Tull and UK on earlier posts.  I had thought of Camel but their later albums vacillated a lot.  In retrospect, the recruitment of Kit Watkins was inspired so I could have gone with 'I Can See Your House From Here'.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Well, you could say anything after Moonmadness was past Camel's prime just like you can say anything after CTTE was past Yes's prime. For Genesis it's a bit more hazy but maybe anything after PG left.
 

Camel's Rain Dances is fantastic. I far prefer it to Moonmadness, just like I prefer Relayer to CTTE.

Maybe our concept of prime is a little different, i.e. highest rated albums vs. a band firing on all cylinders.

This is no doubt heresy to some or many, but I like Genesis' albums immediately following PG's departure the best.
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Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Scorpius Scorpius wrote:

Close between Red and Animals but gotta go with Floyd this time. If only my copy of Red on vinyl wasn't a misprint with the A side printed on both sides! Angry

Sounds like the kind of thing that could bring a pretty penny from a collector. Like vintage baseball card misprints. 

I actually did a little bit of digging around on discogs after I saw your comment, and I was able to confirm that the pressing I have is an official KC re-release from 2013 that was miss-pressed to have two A sides. No chance I could return this to the store I bought it from originally but are there places online where people would be interested in such a thing? Might be a stupid question but I've never looked into selling vinyl online, especially when it's a copy of an album that can't even be listened to all the way through. 
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I'm going to vote for the Cow, but there are several great albums here. 
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

Interesting to see your contributions and I thank you.  I have documented my non-inclusion of both Tull and UK on earlier posts. 
 

Not considering Tull a prog act is very odd. I'm not a massive fan but they were hardcore prog for a longer time than many more so called prog acts.

UK as a 'project'? Well that excludes King Crimson as well imo.

In the end I voted for Animals because PF were unusual in that they became more complex at a time when the opposite was happening. Animals is the most important late entry but UK were still flying the prog banner when most had given up and gone home. There just aren't enough albums in the world with Eddie Jobson playing on them. 
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